Mech queries (advanced)

Discussion in 'Mech Mods' started by Scissorhands, 28/6/17.

Discuss Mech Mods on South Africa's Vaping Enthusiast's Forum

Tags:
  1. Scissorhands

    Not Rated Member

    0/5,

    Scissorhands Experienced Vaper

    Threads:
    5
    Posts:
    476
    Country:
    South Africa
    Joined:
    11/4/16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Margate KZN
    Ratings:
    +871
    Good day ladies and gents!

    This is a space for mech user's to question/discuss/answer anything mech related, from basic maintenance, pro tips to personal experiences, anything goes

    I would like this thread to be more technical/educational as opposed to product/clone related if possible

    Ill kick this off with 2 questions

    1) Would i be correct to assume that a mods volt drop is due to the mods own resistance in the circuit

    eg. If i know a mod is putting out 3.7v on a fresh battery (4.2v) with a 0.2 ohm coil, i will in fact pull a max 18.5 amps, not 21 amps . The mod will have a resistance of roughly 0.027 ohms (please correct me if my understanding is flawed)

    2) what product/s do you use on your aluminium,gold, brass and copper contacts to avoid arching/pitting/carbon build up

    I hope that made sense
    Best regards
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
    Last edited: 28/6/17
  2. Cespian

    Excellent Member

    5/5, 2 votes

    Cespian Elite Vaper

    Threads:
    19
    Posts:
    1,173
    Country:
    South Africa
    Joined:
    19/11/15
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cape Town
    Ratings:
    +2,807
    First of all, I think its necessary to define what a mech mod actually is. I see way too many people referring to their Noisy V2 Mech or Tesla Invader Mech.

    A mechanical mod has absolutely no circuitry. As in Nada. no protection, no control, nothing. These devices generally cleverly break (and close) the circuit by means of a switchable contact plate between the negative of the battery and chassis of the device. In saying that, the chassis forms the ground/negative portion of the circuit (in laymens terms), and the positive is delivered straight to the 510 pin of your atty (either direct AKA hybrid, or an intermediary pin between the battery and 510 pin on your atomiser. Voltage/Power/Current is controlled by ohms law (the coil build in your atomiser).

    Once you start finding electronic components between your batteries, chassis and 510 connector, you are treading into the "Unregulated" or "Regulated" world. This is beyond the scope of this thread so I will defer from explaining this further.

    My attempt to answer your questions @Scissorhands :

    1. Voltage drop in a mech is due to amount of material used. Simplify this a bit... consider using 2 PVC pipes, both connected to identical water taps, but the one is 1 meter long and the other is 10 meters long... you open the taps at the same time, which pipe does the water come out first?

    2. I generally stick to copper, for conductivity, durability and affordability. To keep clean, I use a fine grit sandpaper or a blade and gently scrape off any build up. I know that there are probably better methods, but this works for me.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  3. GerritVisagie

    Excellent Member

    5/5, 2 votes

    GerritVisagie Vaping Enthusiast Vaping: 1 Year

    Threads:
    16
    Posts:
    881
    Country:
    South Africa
    Joined:
    14/8/16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rustenburg
    Ratings:
    +1,525
    GREAT IDEA FOR A TREAD!Love it. my answers here would be as follows.

    Regarding voltage drop, the general consensus of my research points to this.
    The resistance of a tube mech, made of copper, is generally so low, it's almost nothing. The issue, is the internal resistance of the battery.

    And secondly, I found to keep contacts clean, an eraser works great, but to really clean it, a blade to scrape off build up, and the the old vinegar & hot water bath.


    Sent from my iPhone 7+ using Tapatalk
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  4. Scissorhands

    Not Rated Member

    0/5,

    Scissorhands Experienced Vaper

    Threads:
    5
    Posts:
    476
    Country:
    South Africa
    Joined:
    11/4/16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Margate KZN
    Ratings:
    +871
    Thanks for your response @Cespian , I agree with your definition, and yes vendors market unregulated devices as mechs . . . Wich is misleading

    1) i understand your analogy in terms of "a shorter path will generate less resistance" but more material could aid in conductivity between point A and B if the distance between A and b remain the same (eg. 20awg vs 32awg)

    But still believe other factors are larger contributers like the surface area between contact poins in the switch/button as this would be a choke point

    (Please know that none of this is fact, just my understanding, wich i hope someone would improve/correct, to better my understanding)

    Regards
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  5. Andre

    Excellent Member

    5/5, 19 votes

    Andre Reonaut Vaping: 4 Years ECIGSSA Donor VIP

    Threads:
    267
    Posts:
    18,940
    Country:
    South Africa
    Joined:
    6/10/13
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Koringberg
    Ratings:
    +29,782
    I clean my contact with a white eraser, followed by an alcohol pad. Thereafter some Deoxit Gold gets applied. If the eraser and alcohol do not get it clean, I use those 4 step nail buffers, followed by alcohol pad and Deoxit Gold.

    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Can relate Can relate x 1
    • List
  6. Scissorhands

    Not Rated Member

    0/5,

    Scissorhands Experienced Vaper

    Threads:
    5
    Posts:
    476
    Country:
    South Africa
    Joined:
    11/4/16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Margate KZN
    Ratings:
    +871
    Thanks @Andre ! Thats the answer i was looking for, i assume deoxit gold would be something to look for in electronic/repair places?

    @GerritVisagie i enjoy the presence and enthusiasm in your posts, glad to see you here
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  7. GerritVisagie

    Excellent Member

    5/5, 2 votes

    GerritVisagie Vaping Enthusiast Vaping: 1 Year

    Threads:
    16
    Posts:
    881
    Country:
    South Africa
    Joined:
    14/8/16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rustenburg
    Ratings:
    +1,525
    Ha ha.
    Thanx.
    I love learning more and more about mechs.


    Sent from my iPhone 7+ using Tapatalk
     
  8. CeeJay

    Not Rated Member

    0/5,

    CeeJay Experienced Vaper Vaping: 6 Months

    Threads:
    12
    Posts:
    166
    Country:
    South Africa
    Joined:
    3/5/17
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cape Town
    Ratings:
    +237
    I'm relatively new to Mech Mods, being an electrician I understand the ins and outs, possibly what made me love them more than regulated mods. If possible could you guys add pics of your setups, Clone/Authentic and HE/LE it doesn't matter. Looking at getting myself a decent mod, something solid. Would like some of your opinions.

    That aside, for cleaning and polishing purposes I've ordered myself https://m.fasttech.com/p/7462700 will review it once I receive it.

    Material wise I'm not fond of the copper odour so I will always choose SS over copper.
     
  9. CeeJay

    Not Rated Member

    0/5,

    CeeJay Experienced Vaper Vaping: 6 Months

    Threads:
    12
    Posts:
    166
    Country:
    South Africa
    Joined:
    3/5/17
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cape Town
    Ratings:
    +237


    It's quite long and not in HD but a cool real world experiment. On the copper vs brass and SS mod material. Does volt drop and power readings.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  10. Andre

    Excellent Member

    5/5, 19 votes

    Andre Reonaut Vaping: 4 Years ECIGSSA Donor VIP

    Threads:
    267
    Posts:
    18,940
    Country:
    South Africa
    Joined:
    6/10/13
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Koringberg
    Ratings:
    +29,782
    Not sure if Deoxit Gold is available locally (mine was imported via the good graces of @Rob Fisher), but I am sure those shops should be able to point you to suitable alternatives. I know in the Reoville forum they mentioned some, but cannot remember the names.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  11. Scissorhands

    Not Rated Member

    0/5,

    Scissorhands Experienced Vaper

    Threads:
    5
    Posts:
    476
    Country:
    South Africa
    Joined:
    11/4/16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Margate KZN
    Ratings:
    +871
    Im also not too fond of copper, living on a coast line (salty humid air & sweaty hands) doesn't help

    As requested , i know, terrible lighting

    20170628_172247.jpg

    And as i mentioned in the OP i dont want this thread to be centered around products but i make a terrible policeman and i do like eye candy :)
     
    Last edited: 28/6/17
  12. Mr_Puffs

    Excellent Member

    5/5, 1 vote

    Mr_Puffs Technicality is my middle name

    Threads:
    20
    Posts:
    232
    Country:
    South Africa
    Joined:
    4/2/17
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Potchefstroom
    Ratings:
    +439
    Hey guys.

    Regarding the whole voltage drop debate (in tube mechs that is), the material used in the tube of a mech doesn't matter at all to be honest. Where voltage drop plays the biggest role is in die button and threads of your mech. For example, let's say you have a mech which has a removeable button and 4 tubes which are all similiar but one which is SS, Ti, Copper and Brass. If all of them are identical in wall width and length overall each one would hit as hard as the next with a tiny bit more voltage drop on the SS tube, but not really enough to notice. Mooch did a very detailed bit on this subject and I have found it to be true. I always thought that I would only use copper mechs as they are the hardest hitters right? Except for a full silver mech. Yet I have used mechs now which have been all different metals and the ones that have hit the hardest are ones with proper copper buttons or brass buttons with copper pins, regardless of the tube material. I have a full brass able with a copper pin and brass button which hits extremely hard, yet a friend of mine has a titanium comp lyfe predator with a brass button which hits harder even though it is made of titanium which is less conductive. Reason being the quality of the button and thickness of the walls of the tube. Thus eliminating the need for a messy and extremely fast tarnishing copper tube. Hope that adds some insight to common beliefs centred around mechs..
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
  13. spiv

    Not Rated Member

    0/5,

    spiv Dedicated Vaper

    Threads:
    8
    Posts:
    517
    Country:
    South Africa
    Joined:
    3/6/16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Joburg
    Ratings:
    +754
    Re voltage drop. If the voltage drops between the battery and my coil, what is being drained from my battery? The 4.2v of the battery or the 4.0v that's reaching the coil (hypothetical numbers)?

    If it's the 4.0v that's reaching the coil, would it also apply to the amps the battery is putting out? The formula says yes, but I ask stupid questions.
     
    • Can relate Can relate x 1
    • List
  14. Bearshare

    Not Rated Member

    0/5,

    Bearshare Experienced Vaper

    Threads:
    16
    Posts:
    408
    Country:
    South Africa
    Joined:
    17/6/16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cape Town, Western Cape, South Africa
    Ratings:
    +352
    guys can you see from the pics attached if this is original or not VTC 4 for R100(i know to get to be true......)




    19619627_1656403934384081_48771941_o.jpg 19619692_1656403911050750_681031906_o.jpg 19576800_1656403901050751_631670993_o.jpg
     
    Last edited: 29/6/17
  15. Scissorhands

    Not Rated Member

    0/5,

    Scissorhands Experienced Vaper

    Threads:
    5
    Posts:
    476
    Country:
    South Africa
    Joined:
    11/4/16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Margate KZN
    Ratings:
    +871
    Wich vendor/retailer?

    That price would be competing with large American electronic retailers . . . Wich is impossible locally

    And it can be virtually impossible to tell clone from authentic evin with an authentic side by side
     
  16. Bearshare

    Not Rated Member

    0/5,

    Bearshare Experienced Vaper

    Threads:
    16
    Posts:
    408
    Country:
    South Africa
    Joined:
    17/6/16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cape Town, Western Cape, South Africa
    Ratings:
    +352
  17. Bearshare

    Not Rated Member

    0/5,

    Bearshare Experienced Vaper

    Threads:
    16
    Posts:
    408
    Country:
    South Africa
    Joined:
    17/6/16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cape Town, Western Cape, South Africa
    Ratings:
    +352
  18. Scissorhands

    Not Rated Member

    0/5,

    Scissorhands Experienced Vaper

    Threads:
    5
    Posts:
    476
    Country:
    South Africa
    Joined:
    11/4/16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Margate KZN
    Ratings:
    +871
  19. Kuhlkatz

    Excellent Member

    5/5, 3 votes

    Kuhlkatz No place like Ohm. Vaping: 3 Years Staff Member Moderator

    Threads:
    3
    Posts:
    1,403
    Country:
    South Africa
    Joined:
    30/7/14
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Centurion
    Ratings:
    +2,848
    Actually the 4.2v, but there are other factors to consider. Keep in mind that the complete circuit is made up of the battery and all of the parts that make up the load circuit. If there is a voltage drop, it is due to resistance in components between the battery and the coil - battery contacts, springs, connector pins, switches etc. They all form part of the total series circuit that 'loads' the battery.
    The actual load on the battery will depend on the overall resistance of your coil AND all of the components. If your coil is 0.25 ohm and all the components together adds up to another 0.01 ohms, the circuit will thus only deliver as if the coil is a 0.26 ohm build on a 4.2v battery. This is using your hypothetical values of 4.2v and 4.0v.
    So, instead of a 70.56 Watt vape, you will effectively vape a 67.85 Watt build and the current draw would be 16.15A instead of 16.8A.

    You can use a voltage divider calculator such as http://www.calculatoredge.com/electronics/voltage divide.htm and plug in our known values of Vin = 4.2v, Vout across the coil = 4.0v and the Coil itself is Rb @ 0.25 ohm. Ra calculated would then be the 0.01 ohm that is the sum of the rest of the 'whacky' mech and atty parts that refuse to play ball.

    A hefty perceived voltage drop could also be due to ageing batteries and a sag in voltage due to higher internal resistance when the load increases - e.g. they might measure around 4.2v fresh off a charger, but as soon as they are loaded, the output actually drops to 4.0v ( also a hypothetical example )
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  20. Silver

    Excellent Member

    5/5, 30 votes

    Silver Flavour and throat hit seeker Vaping: 4 Years Staff Member Administrator ECIGSSA Donor VIP

    Threads:
    562
    Posts:
    30,613
    Country:
    South Africa
    Joined:
    16/11/13
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Joburg
    Ratings:
    +46,501
    Admin
    Hi @Scissorhands , great thread

    I will also try answer your questions and add some further comments:

    Regarding volt drop, the way I understand it is along the lines of what @Kuhlkatz so greatly explained above. Its not just the resistance of the mod itself but also the internal resistance of the battery AND the coil you put in. A much lower resistance coil will lead to a higher measured voltage drop under load at the posts than a higher resistance coil, all else being equal.

    I tested the volt drop of my Reos a while back under load and found that the volt drop tends to be around 0.2V with a 1 ohm coil. I.e. If the battery voltage was 4.1V, then the voltage at the posts while pressing the fire button was 3.9V. Not easy to do it with two hands because the probes need to be firm on the posts and then you need to fire it ;-)

    As for your second question about something to help with arcing and pitting, i am using dielectric grease. @Alex got it for us at a supplier somewhere in the East Rand I think. He got a whole tub/can of it. He thrn gave me a large syringe full about 2 years ago and i have only used about 1/10th of the syringe! I put a tiny tiny amount of it on the battery positive terminal and spread it out with the sharp point of a toothpick. And i do the same on the positive pin that makes contact with the battery. It stays on there for a long time, only needs more once in a while.

    From time to time I also do what @Andre recommended above, using a white rubber eraser and also wipe with rubbing alcohol.

    I havent had any problems with major pitting (at least not that I can see with the naked eye) and my Reos are still firing very nicely 3 years on, so they must still be ok. But then again, i dont go very low on the resistance so am not overly stressing things. My lowest usable build on my Reos is about 0.4 to 0.5 ohms. So thats drawing only about 8-10 amps.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  21. spiv

    Not Rated Member

    0/5,

    spiv Dedicated Vaper

    Threads:
    8
    Posts:
    517
    Country:
    South Africa
    Joined:
    3/6/16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Joburg
    Ratings:
    +754
    Thanks! This makes so much sense.
     
  22. GerritVisagie

    Excellent Member

    5/5, 2 votes

    GerritVisagie Vaping Enthusiast Vaping: 1 Year

    Threads:
    16
    Posts:
    881
    Country:
    South Africa
    Joined:
    14/8/16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rustenburg
    Ratings:
    +1,525
  23. Rob Fisher

    Excellent Member

    5/5, 21 votes

    Rob Fisher Reonaut / ECIGSSA Admin Vaping: 4 Years Staff Member Administrator ECIGSSA Donor FINES MASTER VIP

    Threads:
    840
    Posts:
    25,001
    Country:
    South Africa
    Joined:
    3/2/14
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Winston Park, Durbs
    Ratings:
    +60,741
    Admin
  24. stephen.johnson2

    Not Rated Member

    0/5,

    stephen.johnson2 New Vaper Vaping: 1 Year

    Threads:
    11
    Posts:
    53
    Country:
    Taiwan
    Joined:
    25/1/17
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cape Town
    Ratings:
    +44
    I have a Karma Mech Tube with Sony VT5 and placed 2 stapled coils in as below

    It is coming out at .19ohm and not firing......should it fire?

    upload_2017-7-12_12-36-20.png
     
  25. Scissorhands

    Not Rated Member

    0/5,

    Scissorhands Experienced Vaper

    Threads:
    5
    Posts:
    476
    Country:
    South Africa
    Joined:
    11/4/16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Margate KZN
    Ratings:
    +871
    A VTC5 is rated at 20 amp continuous, assuming you are getting 3.7V you will be drawing 19.4 amps, personally that is a little close for my comfort.

    But to answer your question, a mech should fire anything you throw at it, there's no safety

    Are you using the Karma RDTA?
     
Google Analytics Alternative