I’m unpacking winter clothes again, Hell is going to freeze over?
First time I’ve seen demand and harm reduction used in the same article
The ongoing media war on E-cigs and Vaping industry
First time I’ve seen demand and harm reduction used in the same article
Unfortunately when such articles are "provided by PMI", it merely strengthens the public perception that vaping is just big tobacco's way to keep half the population hooked on nicotine and buying their products.
The article makes perfect sense but big tobacco has such a sordid history of lying, and broader society is so keen to dismantle the nicotine industry, that it will fall on deaf ears.
The article makes perfect sense but big tobacco has such a sordid history of lying, and broader society is so keen to dismantle the nicotine industry, that it will fall on deaf ears.
Well I think we should leave to politics to the idiots
If flavor ban happens, we just make our own juices, the sale of concentrates is not illigal just flavored e-juice, recipes will just be more available and we will have a DIY boom, I mean steroids are illegal but I can get that couriered to my doorstep, so if we believe in our community and we don't stop vaping what can anyone do, with 8mill Vapers in US and I guess a few million here and 10mill un the uk well what can anyone do. China won't stop building devices, pg and vg and nicotine are easily available, worst that can happen is we vape food flavors,
If flavor ban happens, we just make our own juices, the sale of concentrates is not illigal just flavored e-juice, recipes will just be more available and we will have a DIY boom, I mean steroids are illegal but I can get that couriered to my doorstep, so if we believe in our community and we don't stop vaping what can anyone do, with 8mill Vapers in US and I guess a few million here and 10mill un the uk well what can anyone do. China won't stop building devices, pg and vg and nicotine are easily available, worst that can happen is we vape food flavors,
Speaking about flavors, I'm stocking up in 500ml Flav soon we have amazing vendors and we trust them with our lives
If push comes to shove, we make our own Flav, the vape industry is very innovative and we have a local Flav manufacturer if I'm not mistaken, and I don't mind to buy Flav from the EU vaping is there to stay
@Silver I often think about this and it would be interesting to conduct a survey of everyone who has been vaping for 5 years or longer, asking them to state which medical issues they've had in the past 5 years. Of course it doesn't mean that those medical issues were caused by vaping, but one might just discover a common denominator.[/QUOTE]
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Well for me it was severe sinus in the evenings and in the morning I wake up, I have more energy and i passed all my annual medical,
Easy for me as well @Hooked , I can climb stairs again without resting after each 7th one, I don’t donate a lung every morning anymore, my doctor and neurologist don’t have a problem with it after monitoring, unfortunately I still have sinus due to other allergies, but 3rd winter without bronchitis, so something is working.
@SmokeyJoe Going back to stinkies is exactly what Big Tobacco wants you to do! Don't give them that pleasure!
No ill never go back to stinkies. I was in ICU with a collapsed lung 8 years ago from smoking
Here's the sad bit. Our MD is incredibly anti smoking, and he banned smoking in the premises years ago. Now he has read all this bull about people being hospitalized and dying as a result of vaping as the press puts it and has banned that too now. Needless to say, I am thoroughly cheesed off with the press for writing a load of baloni without doing any research whatsoever, and the sad thing is, that people who know absolutely nothing about vaping believe every word that they say. It's very saddening.
Since joining this forum years ago, I made it my mission to try and spread the positive news that vaping saves lives, and is the biggest boon to public health ever.
But no matter what factual evidence is put forth in various white papers, and no matter how many health experts vocally support vaping. The lame stream media and corrupt politicians/NGO's continue to spread outright lies and false information.
We will never win this battle as long as the media controls the narrative. The majority of people today are sheep that blindly put their trust in the "News Peddlers" of today.
So try to forget about vaping for a second and think about all the other things we are fed by the media on a daily basis. Then have a look at your own bias toward that topic, and think about the fact that you have probably been misled and outright lied to by the very people you have trusted to bring the truth.
We truly live in a matrix, and most people given the choice, will happily refuse to take the red pill. from wikipedia(The red pill, together with its opposite, the blue pill, is a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing a choice between the "red pill", representing a life of harsh knowledge, desperate freedom, and the brutal truths of reality, and the "blue pill", representing a life of luxurious security, tranquil happiness, and the blissful ignorance of the harsh realities of life, basking in an (essentially dishonest) illusion
But no matter what factual evidence is put forth in various white papers, and no matter how many health experts vocally support vaping. The lame stream media and corrupt politicians/NGO's continue to spread outright lies and false information.
We will never win this battle as long as the media controls the narrative. The majority of people today are sheep that blindly put their trust in the "News Peddlers" of today.
So try to forget about vaping for a second and think about all the other things we are fed by the media on a daily basis. Then have a look at your own bias toward that topic, and think about the fact that you have probably been misled and outright lied to by the very people you have trusted to bring the truth.
We truly live in a matrix, and most people given the choice, will happily refuse to take the red pill. from wikipedia(The red pill, together with its opposite, the blue pill, is a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing a choice between the "red pill", representing a life of harsh knowledge, desperate freedom, and the brutal truths of reality, and the "blue pill", representing a life of luxurious security, tranquil happiness, and the blissful ignorance of the harsh realities of life, basking in an (essentially dishonest) illusion
A lengthy article but another great one from Dr F
http://www.ecigarette-research.org/...Tu6UPZB0fQGZrB76ABlmTML-D_qB1E6mwdVJN0jFhKuhY
http://www.ecigarette-research.org/...Tu6UPZB0fQGZrB76ABlmTML-D_qB1E6mwdVJN0jFhKuhY
As long as everyone refuses the narrative then everything is fine
I have a saying and you may quote me on this in the future, nothing fcks up an argument like a few good facts
My ex wife will disagree
Well I dont really follow all these vaping is bad propaganda but just a few things.
Banning of flàvours is nothing new, I dont think anyone claims the flavours cause lung issues. The flavour ban has been in the background for some time, long before the lung deaths.
Vaping has always claimed to be the way to stop smoking. So to stop smoking you can do it with tobacco flavoured juice.
Funny thing is most people when they try to stop smoking and start vaping, it will be suggested to start with tobacco flavour, Im sure most of us bought a tobacco first. Now we have all these vapers writing little banners how they stopped smoking on caramel litchy, butterscotch orange etc. Why are we as vapers also "selling" false propaganda?
Surely we should see their agenda with flavour ban has some merit? How many teenagers or people that never smoked, will start vaping if there is only tobacco flavours? How many poeple will keep on vaping for more than a year or two if there is only tobacco flavours? Does vaping not claim to be a way to stop smoking? With nic patches etc you dont continue using it for years?
I think as vapers we should be very carefull and not just follow and repeat the cries from vaping vendors and people making a living out of vaping. Otherwise you just sit on the other side of the fence, spreading propaganda the same way you accusing the other side off.
You cant have your bread butter on both sides. The vaping community should decide if they want to be a lifestyle or a means to quit smoking. If they decide that they are a lifestyle, fashion hobby etc, then they must take whatever the governments, anti vaping community etc throw at them. If they decide they are a means to stop smoking, they and the governments, anti vaping community can sit together and find middle ground.
But stupid propaganda wars from both sides will only have one looser.
For example. People smoke for 20 years amd not really have much medical issues. Now they vape for 3 years and claim they have no medical issues. DUHh? What does that proof? The internet and facebook is full of these unscientific claims by vapers. Reminds me of the "my grandfather smoked till he was 90 years old and had no health issues" stories. Stupid unscientific propaganda
Banning of flàvours is nothing new, I dont think anyone claims the flavours cause lung issues. The flavour ban has been in the background for some time, long before the lung deaths.
Vaping has always claimed to be the way to stop smoking. So to stop smoking you can do it with tobacco flavoured juice.
Funny thing is most people when they try to stop smoking and start vaping, it will be suggested to start with tobacco flavour, Im sure most of us bought a tobacco first. Now we have all these vapers writing little banners how they stopped smoking on caramel litchy, butterscotch orange etc. Why are we as vapers also "selling" false propaganda?
Surely we should see their agenda with flavour ban has some merit? How many teenagers or people that never smoked, will start vaping if there is only tobacco flavours? How many poeple will keep on vaping for more than a year or two if there is only tobacco flavours? Does vaping not claim to be a way to stop smoking? With nic patches etc you dont continue using it for years?
I think as vapers we should be very carefull and not just follow and repeat the cries from vaping vendors and people making a living out of vaping. Otherwise you just sit on the other side of the fence, spreading propaganda the same way you accusing the other side off.
You cant have your bread butter on both sides. The vaping community should decide if they want to be a lifestyle or a means to quit smoking. If they decide that they are a lifestyle, fashion hobby etc, then they must take whatever the governments, anti vaping community etc throw at them. If they decide they are a means to stop smoking, they and the governments, anti vaping community can sit together and find middle ground.
But stupid propaganda wars from both sides will only have one looser.
For example. People smoke for 20 years amd not really have much medical issues. Now they vape for 3 years and claim they have no medical issues. DUHh? What does that proof? The internet and facebook is full of these unscientific claims by vapers. Reminds me of the "my grandfather smoked till he was 90 years old and had no health issues" stories. Stupid unscientific propaganda
The same number who started smoking when cigarettes only had tobacco flavours?
It doesn't have to be one or the other, it can be both. There is no doubt that many/most vapers have no intention to quit nicotine. Doctors will always recommend quitting everything. However, transitioning to a less harmful form of nic is better. It is there for people who want to quit the harms of combustible tobacco. If they then decide to also quit the much lesser harms of vaping, so much the better.
One thing that vaping offers quitters, which smoking doesn't, is a way to regulate your nic intake, especially if you DIY. I vape 1mg juice now, down from 18 or 24 when I first started. I couldn't have regulated my nic in cigarettes the same way. You get light cigarettes with less nic but those are your two basic options - full nic and light. You can't tweak it down 1mg at a time like you can with DIY.
[QUOTE="RichJB, post: 809078, member: 6The same number who started smoking when cigarettes only had tobacco flavours?
Well even on this tiny community on the forum there is people who never smoked but vape. Let me just repeat that again, never smoked but vape. So no definately not same number.
It doesn't have to be one or the other, it can be both. There is no doubt that many/most vapers have no intention to quit nicotine. Doctors will always recommend quitting everything. However, transitioning to a less harmful form of nic is better. It is there for people who want to quit the harms of combustible tobacco. If they then decide to also quit the much lesser harms of vaping, so much the better.
No it doen not have to be one or the other, but like with cigarettes, alcohol etc dont complain if there is sin taxes, regulations etc. Funny thing is, as soon as regulations, taxes etc are mentioned, vapers play the "it saved my life card" , then no mention of lifestyle, funky flavours, hobbies, fashion etc?
One thing that vaping offers quitters, which smoking doesn't, is a way to regulate your nic intake, especially if you DIY. I vape 1mg juice now, down from 18 or 24 when I first started. I couldn't have regulated my nic in cigarettes the same way. You get light cigarettes with less nic but those are your two basic options - full nic and light. You can't tweak it down 1mg at a time like you can with DIY.
Yes like 30-52 mg nicsalts? Yes like 200watt dual coil 60ml juice a day chain vaping? Surely nic is not the only harmfull thing in vape juice? Is the rest 100% healthy, or vape propaganda? 95% less harmfull than a cigarette does not mean harmless?
Well even on this tiny community on the forum there is people who never smoked but vape. Let me just repeat that again, never smoked but vape. So no definately not same number.
It doesn't have to be one or the other, it can be both. There is no doubt that many/most vapers have no intention to quit nicotine. Doctors will always recommend quitting everything. However, transitioning to a less harmful form of nic is better. It is there for people who want to quit the harms of combustible tobacco. If they then decide to also quit the much lesser harms of vaping, so much the better.
No it doen not have to be one or the other, but like with cigarettes, alcohol etc dont complain if there is sin taxes, regulations etc. Funny thing is, as soon as regulations, taxes etc are mentioned, vapers play the "it saved my life card" , then no mention of lifestyle, funky flavours, hobbies, fashion etc?
One thing that vaping offers quitters, which smoking doesn't, is a way to regulate your nic intake, especially if you DIY. I vape 1mg juice now, down from 18 or 24 when I first started. I couldn't have regulated my nic in cigarettes the same way. You get light cigarettes with less nic but those are your two basic options - full nic and light. You can't tweak it down 1mg at a time like you can with DIY.
Yes like 30-52 mg nicsalts? Yes like 200watt dual coil 60ml juice a day chain vaping? Surely nic is not the only harmfull thing in vape juice? Is the rest 100% healthy, or vape propaganda? 95% less harmfull than a cigarette does not mean harmless?
Quite right @Alex, which is why celebrities/Royalty often don't follow articles about themselves. Can you imagine how frustrating it must be to read utter BS which someone has written about you!!!
Why???
Because when I smoked I did not care for tax on cigarettes or warning labels on my packets, because I know its not healthy and that it will put a strain on the country's health bill.
Because we all know sugar is not healthy, thus we dont complain, or have no case if there is sugar tax.
Because I know the strain alcohol abuse put on the socioeconomic and medical system om a country I dont have a case or complain about sin tax on it.
That only explains your personal acceptance (and/or activism in favor) of the existing tax system.
It does not in the slightest explain your previous statement:
"If they decide that they are a lifestyle, fashion hobby etc, then they must take whatever the governments, anti vaping community etc throw at them."
That statement is wrong on so many levels, that it makes me question the true motivation behind it.
@Jean claude Vaaldamme (in black) and my comments (in blue)
No way! Smoking is a lifestyle for many but the govt. doesn't throw anything at them, we, the anti-smoking community, do not throw anything at them. But we must be doormats? No way!
I'm an extremely tolerant person when it comes to people's decisions, lifestyles etc. Even if I don't like or agree with what someone is doing I don't say a word, because it's their choice; their life. I expect the same consideration.
No way! Smoking is a lifestyle for many but the govt. doesn't throw anything at them, we, the anti-smoking community, do not throw anything at them. But we must be doormats? No way!
I'm an extremely tolerant person when it comes to people's decisions, lifestyles etc. Even if I don't like or agree with what someone is doing I don't say a word, because it's their choice; their life. I expect the same consideration.
I agree @alex1501 and there are a few other markers which confirm my thoughts and which I've noticed before.
If we don't repeat the cries of "people making a living out of vaping" they will no longer be able to do so - and we will no longer have mods, coils, juice etc.
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