Tank crackers

[Viper_SA]

Sorry if there is a similar post to this, but it's almost 2am and insomnia is diminishing my ability to properly search. I have never had a plastic tank before until I got my Pioneer MTL RTA. Was hoping to find a list of safe bakery/dessert juices. I know by now that Pompous Pom's Miss Daisy is safe. Is Frosteez safe to use?
Thanks in advance for your responses. I believe the Pioneer has a PTMC "glass" and not polycarbonate

 

[ARYANTO]

Sour flavors
Malic acid
Citrus acid
Cinnamon
is the few I know of .

Here is another list I found:
Wintergreen juice or flavoring
TPA ripe banana flavoring
TPA honeysuckle flavoring
TPA maraschino cherry flavoring
TPA cherry blossom flavoring
TPA root beer flavoring
Mrs. T's strawberry shortcake, snickerdoodle
KBV Hummingbird nectar
mimosa(because of the orange)
cola (because of cinnamon)?
Vapor Renu Teaberry, cherry vanilla (possibly most of their flavors)
Oil based/e liquid that conains essential oils, when mixed with pg/vg, creates esters which will crack plastics
E liquids that contain triacetin, used in vg liquids to carry flavor.

 

[Viper_SA]

Sour flavors
Malic acid
Citrus acid
Cinnamon
is the few I know of .

Thanks, as far as I know this is a problem with citrus flavors.

 

[Timwis]

Are the compound make-up of most plastic tanks different these days to prevent cracking? and most plastic tanks are referred to lazily (I'm guilty) as PC whatever the actual plastic is, a genuine question because i have heard of those on @ARYANTO's list are plastic tank crackers but have used all those TPA flavours with plastic tanks (3 of them regularly) and also quite often use Cinnamon yet i have never had a tank crack! Maybe just been lucky!

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

Why not replace the plastic with glass and be done with your concerns ... Try these guys Glassblowing Industries
I've used them to make up a few glass tanks for me, (albeit mine breaking through bumps and knocks as apposed acidic? juice), and the bonus is they are less than half the price of store bought replacement glass.
I also typically sneak in an extra mm in length, (which on a 24mm dia glass tank, will provide almost half a ml of additional capacity )

 

[Timwis]

Why not replace the plastic with glass and be done with your concerns ... Try these guys Glassblowing Industries
I've used them to make up a few glass tanks for me, (albeit mine breaking through bumps and knocks as apposed acidic? juice), and the bonus is they are less than half the price of store bought replacement glass.
I also typically sneak in an extra mm in length, (which on a 24mm dia glass tank, will provide almost half a ml of additional capacity )

Do they also supply the extra 1mm chimney extension so the extra 1mm in length glass actually fits?

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

Do they also supply the extra 1mm chimney extension so the extra 1mm in length glass actually fits?

There is a proviso on the additional 1mm ... that you have enough thread and or play to get away with it ... to which I'm managed to get away with it on all the tanks I've replaced glass on so far ... nonetheless ... confirm it with a vernier beforehand.

 

[Viper_SA]

Why not replace the plastic with glass and be done with your concerns ... Try these guys Glassblowing Industries
I've used them to make up a few glass tanks for me, (albeit mine breaking through bumps and knocks as apposed acidic? juice), and the bonus is they are less than half the price of store bought replacement glass.
I also typically sneak in an extra mm in length, (which on a 24mm dia glass tank, will provide almost half a ml of additional capacity )

Problem with the Pioneer is that the threading is on the acrylic part. I doubt they'll be able to thread a glass section... But thanks for the link. Always good to know

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

Problem with the Pioneer is that the threading is on the acrylic part. I doubt they'll be able to thread a glass section... But thanks for the link. Always good to know

That's a pity, as I doubt they could make up a threaded glass section

 

[Timwis]

There is a proviso on the additional 1mm ... that you have enough thread and or play to get away with it ... to which I'm managed to get away with it on all the tanks I've replaced glass on so far ... nonetheless ... confirm it with a vernier beforehand.

So which are the tanks this has worked on then? because i can't think of a single tank i own which would allow for a glass 1mm bigger in length to fit even with your explanation, i just don't want people ordering glass sections for their tanks thinking they will get an extra ml of capacity to find out they don't even fit!

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

So which are the tanks this has worked on then? because i can't think of a single tank i own which would allow for a glass 1mm bigger in length to fit even with your explanation, i just don't want people ordering glass sections for their tanks thinking they will get an extra ml of capacity to find out they don't even fit!

These are ones I've managed to easily squeeze extra length onto. The assumption is that you use your gumption, and check before ordering, (worst case scenario is that you could sand the glass height down easily with 1000 grit water paper).
Zeus X
Zeus Single Coil
Destiny
Fat Rabbit
Fat Pig, (You can go an additional 1.7mm)
MD

There will be others in the future as I do tend to bump them over in my workshop fairly regularly

 

[Stranger]

Would they do a bubble glass if you asked them ?

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

Would they do a bubble glass if you asked them ?

I'm sure they could Stranger, as they make specialised scientific glassware.
I have been tempted to ask them to make some "extra girth" tanks, yet never gotten around to it, as I've typically wanted "quick fixes" to replace broken glass, or non standard heights, where I have modified tanks (such as when I was experimenting with Zeus chimneys).

 

[Timwis]

Would they do a bubble glass if you asked them ?

That would make more sense to get extra capacity

 

[Timwis]

These are ones I've managed to easily squeeze extra length onto. The assumption is that you use your gumption, and check before ordering, (worst case scenario is that you could sand the glass height down easily with 1000 grit water paper).
Zeus X
Zeus Single Coil
Destiny
Fat Rabbit
Fat Pig, (You can go an additional 1.7mm)
MD

There will be others in the future as I do tend to bump them over in my workshop fairly regularly

So with this glass now hanging on by a thread literally which you may have to sand down to even allow for that, how do you compensate for the loss of flavour because you have now increased the chamber size! Come on use your "gumption"!

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

So with this glass now hanging on by a thread literally which you may have to sand down to even allow for that, how do you compensate for the loss of flavour because you have now increased the chamber size! Come on use your "gumption"!

All I can say is;
You clearly don't know about stacked errors in mass manufacture, and how it is already compensated for in allowances elsewhere, also, how many threads of metric fine are required to securely hold a tank together.
I appreciate that you may well have more experience in evaluating mods and tanks from a subjective aesthetic and flavour perspective than I do, however you are stepping into a domain and attempting to argue in a domain that you know little of. Had you been an engineer, and come at me with a sound technical argument, we could have a great debate, and I question why you feel the need to argue based on nonsensical opinion?

As a little edification with respect to manufacturing tolerances.
When items are hand made / prototyped, they can be made to exacting tolerances, as anything out of spec is simply discarded, however in the real world, manufacture needs to take into account ALL errors as a plus an minus tolerance, and added together, to which the final "design for manufacture", must provide allowances for same.

Lets look at glass, as it has possibly the worst manufactured error, that a good tank will have to take into account;
As can be seen below, using one of the more common sizes, 24mm od, (highlit), the od is + or minus 0.23mm, so it could be anything from 23.77 to 24.23mm, the inner dimensions now can vary by an additional amount, to which we now add the error, so in the case of a 1.2mm wall thickness, the inner dimension can vary up and down by another 0.05mm PLUS the outer wall variance.

The height is the worst however, as the tubes are cut and the the edge then heated to a point that the corners melt to provide a smooth edge, to which each cuts tollerance is ... taaadaaaaaa ... 0.5mm
You'll note that there are two cuts on a glass tube making it 2 * 0.5mm = 1mm, so the design engineers take this error into account, and halve this as a + and - error, meaning the deck can compensate for + and minus 0.5mm without any variance off design spec.

Now you come along and request replacement glass cut to the high end of the spec, +1mm) ... Is it catered for ... Yes if proper industrialisation protocols have been followed.

 

[ARYANTO]

All I can say is;
You clearly don't know about stacked errors in mass manufacture, and how it is already compensated for in allowances elsewhere, also, how many threads of metric fine are required to securely hold a tank together.
I appreciate that you may well have more experience in evaluating mods and tanks from a subjective aesthetic and flavour perspective than I do, however you are stepping into a domain and attempting to argue in a domain that you know little of. Had you been an engineer, and come at me with a sound technical argument, we could have a great debate, and I question why you feel the need to argue based on nonsensical opinion?

As a little edification with respect to manufacturing tolerances.
When items are hand made / prototyped, they can be made to exacting tolerances, as anything out of spec is simply discarded, however in the real world, manufacture needs to take into account ALL errors as a plus an minus tolerance, and added together, to which the final "design for manufacture", must provide allowances for same.

Lets look at glass, as it has possibly the worst manufactured error, that a good tank will have to take into account;
As can be seen below, using one of the more common sizes, 24mm od, (highlit), the od is + or minus 0.23mm, so it could be anything from 23.77 to 24.23mm, the inner dimensions now can vary by an additional amount, to which we now add the error, so in the case of a 1.2mm wall thickness, the inner dimension can vary up and down by another 0.05mm PLUS the outer wall variance.

The height is the worst however, as the tubes are cut and the the edge then heated to a point that the corners melt to provide a smooth edge, to which each cuts tollerance is ... taaadaaaaaa ... 0.5mm
You'll note that there are two cuts on a glass tube making it 2 * 0.5mm = 1mm, so the design engineers take this error into account, and halve this as a + and - error, meaning the deck can compensate for + and minus 0.5mm without any variance off design spec.

Now you come along and request replacement glass cut to the high end of the spec, +1mm) ... Is it catered for ... Yes if proper industrialisation protocols have been followed.

View attachment 224858

Never been an engineer or glassblower - this is highly informative .

 

[Timwis]

All I can say is;
You clearly don't know about stacked errors in mass manufacture, and how it is already compensated for in allowances elsewhere, also, how many threads of metric fine are required to securely hold a tank together.
I appreciate that you may well have more experience in evaluating mods and tanks from a subjective aesthetic and flavour perspective than I do, however you are stepping into a domain and attempting to argue in a domain that you know little of. Had you been an engineer, and come at me with a sound technical argument, we could have a great debate, and I question why you feel the need to argue based on nonsensical opinion?

The Zeus i have in front of me, once the threading catches it doesn't even have 1mm of threading available and is far from super fine threading, when it catches enough to be able to let go without the base falling off but it's only just clinging on you have 0.5mm at most but the base isn't really secure and i don't need an engineering background to see the deck is now sitting lower in the chamber and it would effect the airflow towers that should slot into cutout sections in the ceiling of the chamber and need to touch the top for the airflow design to work. The Zeus has a cage an extra 1mm glass would protrude past the bottom of the caging covering the threading so it can't be done up. It also threads to the outer perimeter rather than deck to chamber so anything other than the threading being done up all the way would just result in the deck flooding out and you would only be able to drink e-liquid not vape it. If you could show me a picture of your Zeus with a 1mm longer glass (if it doesn't protrude past the cage it has to be the original sized glass)?

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

The Zeus i have in front of me, once the threading catches it doesn't even have 1mm of threading available and is far from super fine threading, when it catches enough to be able to let go without the base falling off but it's only just clinging on you have 0.5mm at most but the base isn't really secure and i don't need an engineering background to see the deck is now sitting lower in the chamber and it would effect the airflow towers that should slot into cutout sections in the ceiling of the chamber and need to touch the top for the airflow design to work. The Zeus has a cage an extra 1mm glass would protrude past the bottom of the caging covering the threading so it can't be done up. It also threads to the outer perimeter rather than deck to chamber so anything other than the threading being done up all the way would just result in the deck flooding out and you would only be able to drink e-liquid not vape it. If you could show me a picture of your Zeus with a 1mm longer glass (if it doesn't protrude past the cage it has to be the original sized glass)?

Please re-read my messages and use that gumption you purport, as apposed trying to exercise your false vanity.

I provided a suggestion to fellow 'forumites', attached to a secondary proposal, and .... a further suggestion should it in fact be to large, all because I KNOW about stacked errors and how to work with them. I even suggested using a vernier to confirm same, however you allowed your ego, and a desire to be seen as the winner in a game where everyone loses to get in the way ... Your egotistical outbursts in areas you have no knowledge do nothing to inspire confidence in your claimed professional? unbiased? reviews.

 

[ARYANTO]

Please re-read my messages and use that gumption you purport, as apposed trying to exercise your false vanity.

I provided a suggestion to fellow 'forumites', attached to a secondary proposal, and .... a further suggestion should it in fact be to large, all because I KNOW about stacked errors and how to work with them. I even suggested using a vernier to confirm same, however you allowed your ego, and a desire to be seen as the winner in a game where everyone loses to get in the way ... Your egotistical outbursts in areas you have no knowledge do nothing to inspire confidence in your claimed professional? unbiased? reviews.

WOW...

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

Interesting measurements here;
The Zeus X manufacturers spec is a glass height of 21mm +-0.5mm, however the "Femaga" replacement bubble glass, (clone glass, bought from VapeKing), is 22mm, (already a full mm taller, and 0.5mm out of spec.), however when I measure the additional space available after allowing for two turns of metric fine, I measure an additional 1.1mm, meaning I could have gone 2.1mm larger albeit that it would have been out of spec. yet would work perfectly!

 

[Viper_SA]

Any updates from anyone regarding the juice question?

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

Any updates from anyone regarding the juice question?

... and Viper_SA yanks the derailed thread back onto it's tracks

I've read about all the infamous tank cracking on this forum, however I never experienced it and am intrigued by it, particularly in that there is no logical explanation other than a remote possibility that the thermal conductivity of certain eliquids / flavourants is short of phenomenal? ...as there isn't a chemical reaction as far as I can tell ... If I am correct? ... then allowing for some movement would be the answer, ie. letting the o-rings do their job on sealing and expansion and NOT over-tightening the tank?

 

[Viper_SA]

... and Viper_SA yanks the derailed thread back onto it's tracks

I've read about all the infamous tank cracking on this forum, however I never experienced it and am intrigued by it, particularly in that there is no logical explanation other than a remote possibility that the thermal conductivity of certain eliquids / flavourants is short of phenomenal? ...as there isn't a chemical reaction as far as I can tell ... If I am correct? ... then allowing for some movement would be the answer, ie. letting the o-rings do their job on sealing and expansion and NOT over-tightening the tank?

I think it's more a question af acidic juices eating away at the plastic.

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

I think it's more a question af acidic juices eating away at the plastic.

I'm afraid I don't know enough about the chemical makeup of the "guilty" eliquids to comment ... maybe one of the DIY experts can provide some insight, as I'd sure love to understand the underlying cause(s)