General etiquette of vaping

[Alex]

http://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_..._created_an_allinclusive_website_with_advice/

http://responsiblevaping.com/

submitted 14 hours ago by Robbbbbbbbb
"Hey guys,

I wanted to share with you a project that I’ve been working on for a few weeks now. I created a web site catered towards the advocacy and general etiquette of vaping - basically, a brief overview of the do’s and the do not’s. This is something that should be common sense in our community, but it certainly isn’t always that case. I extended it past just vapers to included businesses and even B&M’s!

My research for the vast majority of the advice stemmed from our community (/r/ECR) as well as CASAA and ECF to determine what we considered to be reasonable behavior by all parties. I definitely welcome constructive criticism to help give the community an ‘unofficial guidebook’.

I set a hard launch date for today, January 1st, 2015. Reasoning? We’re welcoming a bunch of new people into our community with the New Year’s resolutions being in full swing. That’s a great thing!

Take a look and let me know what you think: ResponsibleVaping.com

For B&M’s, I wanted to give you guys the opportunity to get some free product as well. I will provide you with any product that falls into the “no minors allowed” feel: Those can be found over here. If you order those, use code ‘BUYLOCAL’ at checkout and just pay for shipping. I feel strongly that keeping vaping supplies out of the hands of minors is the key to keeping regulations from slamming down on the industry."

 

[Arthster]

awesome site @Alex, Fully agree with what you have there.

 

[Arctus]

Thanks Alex, nice article.

A few months ago I would have agreed wholeheartedly with the ideas expressed in the reddit post and the website, but I'm starting to change my mind.

When I go out I have always acted like a smoker, only vaping in areas where smoking is allowed, sitting in the smoking section in restaurants, only using a small clearo in public, etc, etc.

I have since discovered that neither smokers nor non smokers give a damn about me or my rights, or any rights I may perceive that I have.
While it appears that, (currently), I enjoy no rights whatsoever as a vaper, with no change to this visible in the near future, quite the contrary actually, I still believe I have the right not to be forced to breathe in second hand cigarette smoke. This to me is key, call me what you want and legislate my habit if you have to, but acknowledge that I am not a smoker and do not force me to inhale second hand smoke.

I believe that vapers conforming to smoking rules only serves to make it easier for the public and authorities to identify us as "smokers" and legislate us as such.
Vapers need to separate themselves wherever and whenever possible from smokers. By vapers voluntarily using smoking areas, the message to everyone is "see it's just as dangerous as smoking"

Just to share an experience I had recently, my wife and I, and a buddy, were sitting in the smoking section of a coffee shop waiting for our meal, I was vaping on an aerotank mini on a variable voltage battery.
A smoker, (no less), at the next table, called the waiter and complained about "a smell" wafting over her, they both turned and looked at our table.

I put down my mini on the table and asked my wife to pass me my atlantis, and proceeded to vape quietly and voluminously with smile on my face.

A little juvenile?, maybe, but when smokers are complaining about vaping, there's a problem.

Being polite and accommodating is not working, and how does that saying go: "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the very definition of insanity".

Legislation is coming, definitely, there is nothing any of us can do about that, it's coming and we will not avoid it, what we may just have a chance to do is influence the strength and direction of this legislation, and associating ourselves with smokers is doing half their job for them.

The unfortunate truth is, it doesn't matter whether we are accommodating, arrogant or just plain irritating, what we need to be is more. There needs to be more of us, a lot more.
The smaller and more marginalized we are, or allow ourselves to be, the less power we will have to use in our defense of our rights, those few we still currently enjoy.

 

[Arthster]

Apologies for turning the tread into a debate but this is something that affects all of us.

@Arctus I fully agree with you that as non smoking member's of society we are not enjoying the same rights as non vaping / non smoking or smoking counterparts.

But here in leis my problem, we are treading on a very fine line. If we bend and follow non smoking rules, the non smoking / non vaping community will label us as smokers. but if we follow the "Old smoking rules" we risk being labeled as inconsiderate smokers. We know for a fact that what we do will not harm those around us. but thanks to the media (Especially news24) the general public sees us as drug addicted outcast that is "smoking" a gas that is 100 000 000 times more dangerous the cyanide, and if used indoors will cause plaster to melt of the walls.

What we need is a way to educate both smoking and non smoking public. we need to educate the man on the street as well as the decision makers that we are not doing what so many believe we are. and at the same time we need to befriend that person, smoker or non smoker.

If we force our way and believes on them we risk loosing there support. if we infringe on there rights we risk the same. but in the meantime we risk losing our rights as vapors and this then puts us on a double edged sword.

I believe what @Alex is doing is a step at doing good. We can give this link to the non smokers / non vapors as a reference to say guys we don't want to infringe on your rights and we take this serious please go and look at this site. but please remember that we are non smokers as well and please in return respect our rights as well. this site is the first step in the much needed public education that is so desperately needed.

I am no stranger to the treatment that you experienced. but I feel, that moment could have been used as an education period, find out what the problem is and maybe asked to sit at a table that is under an extractor. if that fails then by all means vape her out of her shoes, make her feel like a smoked sausage. But firstly we need to try the diplomatic rout as hard and embarrassing and impossible as it may seem. Our actions affect all the vapors not just us. I know what I am saying sounds like a turn the other cheek speech and unfortunately it is. We as vapors cannot at this critical stage afford to turn 2/3 of society against us.

We have a long fight ahead of us and we need alias, many many alias.

P.S maybe the flavor you where vaping on was affecting her in a negative way, and simple flavor swap would have resolved the problem.

 

[Arctus]

@Arthster what Alex is doing is not only good, it's vital, he keeps us updated on vaping issues from around the world, he brings many things to our attention that may have gone unnoticed by many of us.

As for the rest of your post, I respectfully disagree, many of your suggestions and examples are contrary to my experiences.
We will never be labeled as "inconsiderate smokers", coming from a corporate work environment, in a building shared with other corporate's, we are in general labeled as "those funny e-cig smokers that don't use smoke" (I sh.t you not)

We don't "know for a fact that what we do will not harm those around us", this has not been conclusively proved either way.
Previously I was prepared to err on the side of caution where the public is concerned, now, not so much.

We will not "risk loosing there support. if we infringe on there rights", in my opinion we don't have their support to start with, you cannot lose what you don't have.
We also do not "risk losing our rights as vapors" currently, we do not currently have any.

As for education, I have banged my head against that wall many a time, people don't want to learn anything they don't want to, the world has prison's full of proof of this.
The reality, people are fearful of the different and the unknown,...anyone remember apartheid?

Unfortunately society is already against us, or at best ambivalent, we have no allies, other than vapers, their family and friends, we are on our own, which is why I say we need to be more, many more.

As for the flavor I was vaping, you may be right, 5 Pawns Black Flag Fallen does seem to have a polarizing effect on many people , although even after clouds of Custerd's Last Stand, she still looked peed off.

Hold on, I've got it, of course, she was a tobacco person and I was vaping desert vapes.

 

[rogue zombie]

Wow, very interesting points of view here!

Some of which I hadn't thought of.

I also act like a smoker in public, but not a hope in hell I'll go into a smoking room, which now stinks to me.

I normally go outside at restaurants etc.

 

[Alex]

Thanks for your views guys, and @Arthster I just wanted to point out that I was just reposting the info for that site. I have no affiliation towards it in any way at all. Just thought I would share the info.

@Arctus, I agree with your views entirely. We need to stand up and be counted. If I ever have a smoker complaining about the smell of my vape... lets just say I won't keep quiet. And I agree that we need to stop pussy footing around people, and rather educate them instead. If they refuse to listen, then bugger them. History will be on our side.

 

[Silver]

@Arthster what Alex is doing is not only good, it's vital, he keeps us updated on vaping issues from around the world, he brings many things to our attention that may have gone unnoticed by many of us.

As for the rest of your post, I respectfully disagree, many of your suggestions and examples are contrary to my experiences.
We will never be labeled as "inconsiderate smokers", coming from a corporate work environment, in a building shared with other corporate's, we are in general labeled as "those funny e-cig smokers that don't use smoke" (I sh.t you not)

We don't "know for a fact that what we do will not harm those around us", this has not been conclusively proved either way.
Previously I was prepared to err on the side of caution where the public is concerned, now, not so much.

We will not "risk loosing there support. if we infringe on there rights", in my opinion we don't have their support to start with, you cannot lose what you don't have.
We also do not "risk losing our rights as vapors" currently, we do not currently have any.

As for education, I have banged my head against that wall many a time, people don't want to learn anything they don't want to, the world has prison's full of proof of this.
The reality, people are fearful of the different and the unknown,...anyone remember apartheid?

Unfortunately society is already against us, or at best ambivalent, we have no allies, other than vapers, their family and friends, we are on our own, which is why I say we need to be more, many more.

As for the flavor I was vaping, you may be right, 5 Pawns Black Flag Fallen does seem to have a polarizing effect on many people , although even after clouds of Custerd's Last Stand, she still looked peed off.

Hold on, I've got it, of course, she was a tobacco person and I was vaping desert vapes.

Hi @Arctus
Have loved reading your posts

I hear what you are saying and i can feel your energy and passion coming through

My observations over the past few months have been quite different. I have found both smokers and non smokers to be very accommodating and genuinely interested in my vaping. Havent had anyone complain yet. Non smokers are very curious and have remarked on more than one occasion that it smells nice. Smokers are curious too and genuinely interested. I have had a few asking me where i got my gear and I have even referred a few of them to the forum.

In public non smoking places like malls and restaurant non smoking sections I vape but i do it fairly stealthily. Not totally stealth, but not to try create attention. At my wifes birthday recently about 12 of us went to a very larney restaurant here in JHB. I vaped away for a few hours and no one even commented. I think taking a stealthish vape is very different to showing off "Atlantis style"

 

[Arthster]

Thanks @Arctus. I do suppose we share different points of view. My opinion comes from the fact that I am the only vapor in the office, which has the result that I am skeefed out by the smokers and non smokers alike.

just to make sure there is no hard feelings. I did not intend my post as an argument.

you are right we don't know for a fact that we aren't causing harm but the evidence at hand does state that is allot better then tobacco.

I do share your point that it feels like we are speaking to brick walls when it comes to educating people on the realities of vaping. I myself live with a wife that is extremely anti smoke, and in her eyes vaping is exactly like smoking. I have even tried to show her the interview with Dr F but she watched for about 2 minutes and walked away (Happens when your married to a Taurus I suppose )

The reason I have brought my point of view across is because of my experience with people that where completely intolerant. I sent them a couple of links to pages containing research that has been done and had the proper evidence to backup the claims made, and I have actually converted 2 of them (Both Non smokers) to understand. What also helped was the fact that I had the bragging rights to say that its been the longest that I have been able to stay of tobacco ever and that even though to a non smoker or someone that was able to quit it might not seem like much, but to me vaping has been a godsend.

We are faced with allot of opposition from both spectrum and my fear is that through actions we alienate both. I wholeheartedly agree that we are on our own and that is the reason we need to make sure that we include non smokers and smokers in what we are doing in a positive and progressive manner (Thankfully we have more smokers that joins us on a daily basis)

we both share many different views and that is a good thing to combine our views and work towards a workable solution to the problem

the flavor idea was a PS because while I was working on my post my wife did ask me to change flavors as the flavor I was vaping was to strong and making her feel sick.

Again please don't see my post as an argument but rather what I would have done in that situation or a different view point.

 

[rogue zombie]

If a smoker said anything about my vapour, quite frankly I'll tell them to p... off really!

That's just absurd.

 

[Arctus]

Thanks @Arctus. I do suppose we share different points of view. My opinion comes from the fact that I am the only vapor in the office, which has the result that I am skeefed out by the smokers and non smokers alike.

just to make sure there is no hard feelings. I did not intend my post as an argument.

you are right we don't know for a fact that we aren't causing harm but the evidence at hand does state that is allot better then tobacco.

I do share your point that it feels like we are speaking to brick walls when it comes to educating people on the realities of vaping. I myself live with a wife that is extremely anti smoke, and in her eyes vaping is exactly like smoking. I have even tried to show her the interview with Dr F but she watched for about 2 minutes and walked away (Happens when your married to a Taurus I suppose )

The reason I have brought my point of view across is because of my experience with people that where completely intolerant. I sent them a couple of links to pages containing research that has been done and had the proper evidence to backup the claims made, and I have actually converted 2 of them (Both Non smokers) to understand. What also helped was the fact that I had the bragging rights to say that its been the longest that I have been able to stay of tobacco ever and that even though to a non smoker or someone that was able to quit it might not seem like much, but to me vaping has been a godsend.

We are faced with allot of opposition from both spectrum and my fear is that through actions we alienate both. I wholeheartedly agree that we are on our own and that is the reason we need to make sure that we include non smokers and smokers in what we are doing in a positive and progressive manner (Thankfully we have more smokers that joins us on a daily basis)

we both share many different views and that is a good thing to combine our views and work towards a workable solution to the problem

the flavor idea was a PS because while I was working on my post my wife did ask me to change flavors as the flavor I was vaping was to strong and making her feel sick.

Again please don't see my post as an argument but rather what I would have done in that situation or a different view point.

No prob's @Arthster did not see it as argumentative, you were clear about creating debate, nothing wrong with that.
Your viewpoint is not wrong, its just different to mine, as is @Silver 's experiences above, neither of us are right or wrong, our experiences are just different, mine do not negate yours, nor yours mine, likewise with silver's.

Debate is good, I can understand other peoples viewpoints even if I don't agree with them, sometimes they even change my view, (but admittedly that doesn't happen easily),
I'm not going to apologize for my zeal, as it is a topic I feel strongly about. I enjoy robust debate, and understand the difference between debating and arguing.

Group hug?

PS. this is probably the most posts I have made in any single thread, I must be coming out of my shell

 

[Humbolt]

@Arctus you should consider contributing more because I really enjoyed reading your posts - it is articulate & as such you have managed to give me a new perspective on things.

 

[Arthster]

I myself am always up for a good debate. I just want to be clear that I did not intend to force my views or ideas on you even though it may have seemed that way (I let my passion sometimes take the better of me).

I also feel very strongly about this topic as we have a lot to lose and it seems that the entire world is against a hand full of vapors.

 

[Silver]

@Arctus you should consider contributing more because I really enjoyed reading your posts - it is articulate & as such you have managed to give me a new perspective on things.

I agree with @Humbolt

@Arctus, you need to come out of your shell more often!

 

[Alex]

 

[free3dom]

Seriously....c'mon people...I've been on many forums and this is not the way to behave....where's the fighting, the name calling, the utter lack of respect for one another

I jest, vapers (especially on this forum ) are just awesome people who can actually have a discussion about a controversial subject without behaving like monkeys

So once again, I loudly applaud the vaping community (and all of you involved here) for being wonderful human beings with compassion, thoughtfulness, and open minds. Well done!



PS: It seems that vaping makes people smarter

 

[Arthster]

Seriously....c'mon people...I've been on many forums and this is not the way to behave....where's the fighting, the name calling, the utter lack of respect for one another

I jest, vapers (especially on this forum ) are just awesome people who can actually have a discussion about a controversial subject without behaving like monkeys

So once again, I loudly applaud the vaping community (and all of you involved here) for being wonderful human beings with compassion, thoughtfulness, and open minds. Well done!



PS: It seems that vaping makes people smarter

for sure, I couldn't agree more bud.

Hey maybe we should send a couple of PV's to parliament?

 

[free3dom]

for sure, I couldn't agree more bud.

Hey maybe we should send a couple of PV's to parliament?

Nah, screw 'em...they can go buy their own Twisps

 

[Dassie]

Very interesting this: I work in an office, where up to about 4 months ago, almost everyone smoked (I didn't, didn't vape either ). Then someone arrived with a Twisp and that was that - now there are no smokers left and we are a vaping office (indoors). The non-Vapers don't mind. Except for one dude. He is normally elsewhere, but arrived one day, saw us all vaping and proceeded to spray us with some form of air freshener! Anyhoo - we didn't kill him, but did decide that if even one person objected, we would go outside.

I think that there isn't enough knowledge out there for the general public to know the difference between what we do and what smokers do. My father in law still chokes when he walks through one of my clouds.. (completely psychosomatic..), but that is his reality. I don't think it is too much to ask to accommodate the ignorance for now - it won't always be like that, but we need to make friends of people and we really don't want to be classed with smokers, which many of us were and many out there see as selfish and self-destructive. What we have is a real answer for health and societal issues - and we need to seriously consider how we market it through our attitudes and behaviour.

 

[free3dom]

@Dassie you work in an awesome office...very good people - except for mr spray

I've noticed something that I find quite amusing...some of the people who used to "cough" at my smoke is now doing a "sniff" instead...they really like the smell of vapour and like guessing which flavour I'm currently vaping. Some even delibrately "enter the cloud" for that fully immersive experience - I don't blow clouds at anyone, so they actually move out of their way to get in there

I find it very interesting the varied experiences we all have regarding other peoples reactions towards vaping - human nature is a very intriguing and confusing thing

 

[Dassie]

@Dassie you work in an awesome office...very good people - except for mr spray

I've noticed something that I find quite amusing...some of the people who used to "cough" at my smoke is now doing a "sniff" instead...they really like the smell of vapour and like guessing which flavour I'm currently vaping. Some even delibrately "enter the cloud" for that fully immersive experience - I don't blow clouds at anyone, so they actually move out of their way to get in there

I find it very interesting the varied experiences we all have regarding other peoples reactions towards vaping - human nature is a very intriguing and confusing thing

We actually have some of that happening as well. My employer actually reckons it's a win - the place smells better (not saying that a room full of software developers don't smell nice anyway ) and he likes the improved productivity - those smoke breaks can tally up quickly.

But, yeah - I love having my vape next to me the whole day, and as this forum has proven, it is also a very good social glue - we have built a really nice community around it at the office.

 

[Dassie]

@Dassie you work in an awesome office...very good people - except for mr spray

I've noticed something that I find quite amusing...some of the people who used to "cough" at my smoke is now doing a "sniff" instead...they really like the smell of vapour and like guessing which flavour I'm currently vaping. Some even delibrately "enter the cloud" for that fully immersive experience - I don't blow clouds at anyone, so they actually move out of their way to get in there

I find it very interesting the varied experiences we all have regarding other peoples reactions towards vaping - human nature is a very intriguing and confusing thing

the other thing I laugh at, is how upset my 3 year old becomes when I try to explain that she is too young to vape. She has a serious sweet tooth, and she wants one of these things desperately. I often catch her sneaking up and grabbing a sniff full.. not sure how PC this post is

 

[free3dom]

the other thing I laugh at, is how upset my 3 year old becomes when I try to explain that she is too young to vape. She has a serious sweet tooth, and she wants one of these things desperately. I often catch her sneaking up and grabbing a sniff full.. not sure how PC this post is

Hehe, I notice something similar with my sister's kids...they absolutely love the smell and generally "hang around me" when I'm vaping (not because of my wonderful personality)

I can not for the life of me see how it is any worse for them that the polluted air they have to breathe in every day living in the city - I will stop them from doing this only if the scientists find conclusively that there is "very bad things" in second hand vapour (which they haven't so far)

 

[Arthster]

@Dassie you work in an awesome office...very good people - except for mr spray

I've noticed something that I find quite amusing...some of the people who used to "cough" at my smoke is now doing a "sniff" instead...they really like the smell of vapour and like guessing which flavour I'm currently vaping. Some even delibrately "enter the cloud" for that fully immersive experience - I don't blow clouds at anyone, so they actually move out of their way to get in there

I find it very interesting the varied experiences we all have regarding other peoples reactions towards vaping - human nature is a very intriguing and confusing thing

You really only need one person from the other team to influence the rest. I noticed it as well. At my old company I started vaping and there was funny looks I got until a new guy joined. He didn't smoke but his wife vaped and he would tell the other non smokers how he liked trying the flavors when his wife vaped. it wasn't very long after that that the rest of the non smokers would sniff the juice bottles.

In my current office I have a person who is very much buying onto the crap the media is selling (I had an hour long discussion about Dr F with him this morning, he turned around and told me its bias research cause Dr F also vapes )

But in any case with this guy, I am constantly the but end of the jokes and the rest of the office has followed him. I am now told that I when I go on a "smoke" break I am followed by a row of rats because the SVD looks like a fluit apparently.

sure it me off to no end. but every time he coughs, I just take another puff on the fluit and say "I remember that feeling" usually its followed by a go to hell stare

 

[Dassie]

Hehe, I notice something similar with my sister's kids...they absolutely love the smell and generally "hang around me" when I'm vaping (not because of my wonderful personality)

I can not for the life of me see how it is any worse for them that the polluted air they have to breathe in every day living in the city - I will stop them from doing this only if the scientists find conclusively that there is "very bad things" in second hand vapour (which they haven't so far)

As I said to a buddy today - there are some serious scientists looking for stuff (backed by people who really want them to find it), and so far nothing.. as far as second hand goes - it is all but proven that the vape dissipates too quickly to carry significant amounts of nic.