For the MTL Experts... questions about builds, Ohms and Watts.

[CJB85]

Hey guys
Decided to roll the dice on my Berserker (AGAIN) after the previous two leaked around the third refill.
I took some inspiration from something @Silver said in his Siren 2 review page, about more wraps getting the wicks further from the airflow holes and preventing a juice river.

I used the coil that comes in the little baggie of the Berserker (.7 Ohms, clapton is all I could find out about it), the first one (that the shops installed) was at 0.68. I decided to add (if I remember correctly) 2 additional wraps (all the deck width would allow for my lack of installation skills) and it now Ohms at 0.81.

I am playing around with the wattage and seems the middle hole and 17W is pretty decent. Is 17W within what you guys would recommend, or should I be looking higher/lower? I am currently vaping that Molinberry M-line Bounty (mixed from a one-shot), but will probably move to something coffee soon.

On a side note and for future reference, I have been wondering about coils for MTL on this Berserker. I popped into Vape King Menlyn (yes, I know, but I was hunting for silicone battery sleeves and they were the 5th shop I visited) and during the discussion, the guy behind the counter said they have been big fans of Berserkers and VV products in general for a long time. He appeared to be (appeared) to know what he is talking about and recommended some fused clapton coils from Coil Company, all fine so far. When he showed them to me, they were 3mm ID coils and I, being a noob, said they look too large for the Berserker build deck. He said they will fir 100%, I bought, they didn't fit... Lesson learned. My question rising from this, is what wire, which ID and how many wraps do you recommend I try first when it is time for a new coil?

Lastly, what are some really awesome awesome juices (preferably ones that come in one-shot format) for MTL, that are not tobacco based? I am doing 3mg Nic at the moment but want to go Nic-free soon.

 

[Ruwaid]

@CJB85 those coils from the coil company are pretty decent in mtl mode. I have them in right now in my siren. Were you offered the nano fused or straight up fused claptons? Either way...don't let them go to waste...using a coil tool pull them into 2.5mm ID...even using a drill bit making them smaller.

But when shopping again look for the avndy vape superfine mtl coils (prebuilt) and they ohm about 0.7 @2.5mm ID but tails are long enough for you to add a wrap or two. Without adding wraps you can even space your coils out so it covers the bottom airflow properly.

Juices, esp one shots and DIY are different and according to your liking. For my MTL needs I mainly DIY soho as a single flavour at 7%.

 

[Ruwaid]

@CJB85 I see you are in Pretoria...Im in Murrayfield. Pop by (before 4pm) and I can show you a few options and wrap a coil or few for you with the vandy vape superfine wire

 

[CJB85]

@CJB85 those coils from the coil company are pretty decent in mtl mode. I have them in right now in my siren. Were you offered the nano fused or straight up fused claptons? Either way...don't let them go to waste...using a coil tool pull them into 2.5mm ID...even using a drill bit making them smaller.

But when shopping again look for the avndy vape superfine mtl coils (prebuilt) and they ohm about 0.7 @2.5mm ID but tails are long enough for you to add a wrap or two. Without adding wraps you can even space your coils out so it covers the bottom airflow properly.

Juices, esp one shots and DIY are different and according to your liking. For my MTL needs I mainly DIY soho as a single flavour at 7%.

Thank you! I completely forgot that I could re-wrap them to a smaller diameter. I was going to just store them for whatever the future may hold, but now I may just have a use for them soon. I think they were the normal fused, as I only paid R80 for the set of 2.

 

[Yiannaki]

Hey guys
Decided to roll the dice on my Berserker (AGAIN) after the previous two leaked around the third refill.
I took some inspiration from something @Silver said in his Siren 2 review page, about more wraps getting the wicks further from the airflow holes and preventing a juice river.

I used the coil that comes in the little baggie of the Berserker (.7 Ohms, clapton is all I could find out about it), the first one (that the shops installed) was at 0.68. I decided to add (if I remember correctly) 2 additional wraps (all the deck width would allow for my lack of installation skills) and it now Ohms at 0.81.

I am playing around with the wattage and seems the middle hole and 17W is pretty decent. Is 17W within what you guys would recommend, or should I be looking higher/lower? I am currently vaping that Molinberry M-line Bounty (mixed from a one-shot), but will probably move to something coffee soon.

On a side note and for future reference, I have been wondering about coils for MTL on this Berserker. I popped into Vape King Menlyn (yes, I know, but I was hunting for silicone battery sleeves and they were the 5th shop I visited) and during the discussion, the guy behind the counter said they have been big fans of Berserkers and VV products in general for a long time. He appeared to be (appeared) to know what he is talking about and recommended some fused clapton coils from Coil Company, all fine so far. When he showed them to me, they were 3mm ID coils and I, being a noob, said they look too large for the Berserker build deck. He said they will fir 100%, I bought, they didn't fit... Lesson learned. My question rising from this, is what wire, which ID and how many wraps do you recommend I try first when it is time for a new coil?

Lastly, what are some really awesome awesome juices (preferably ones that come in one-shot format) for MTL, that are not tobacco based? I am doing 3mg Nic at the moment but want to go Nic-free soon.

For MTL coils i recommend these : https://www.atomixvapes.co.za/products/coilology-mtl-staple-wire-10pcs-pack

I am currently using them in my Dotmod MTL and they're fabulous!

I generally vape 3mg juices on normal tanks so i vape 6mg in my MTL.

A really nice fruity and simple DIY Liquid is the Nana Cream Clone. Plus is burns really clean and coils/cotton last ages with this.

(LA) Banana Cream - 5%
(TPA) Dragonfruit - 3%
(TPA) Strawberry - 7%
(CAP) Super Sweet - 0.5 (The recipe doesnt call for this but i thought i needed a hint of sweetness)

Hope this helps!

 

[Silver]

Hi @CJB85

The MTL vape is certainly a great one for me. But I like it for its strong throat hit - like a punch in the throat as you take a drag. So I like higher nic juices and love tobaccoes in MTL. I also like fruity menthols in MTL. I find the menthol helps a bit with the throat hit. Not sure what a zero nic MTL vape would be like - but maybe menthol could help you get some throat hit without the nic.

As far as coils go, its a strange one and I think its device specific.

In my RM2 on my Reo I have tried the most coils and have settled on a simple 29g Kanthal paracoil. 1.6mm ID (tiny) and 5 double wraps - comes out at about 0.45 ohms. It gives me the crispness I crave and the instant ramp up. When I try putting "exotics" in the RM2 (eg claptons) it doesnt work as well. Takes longer to warm up the coil and the vape is less crisp.

On the Siren and Rose MTL RTAs, I have tried far less coils. Seems like on the Rose the claptons do quite well. Not as crisp as I probably would like but its good. Quite a dense flavour. My coil is about 0.75 ohms and I am vaping it at about 20 Watts. Incidentally, that wattage is about the "mech equivalent" for a 0.75 ohm coil. i.e. V squared / R.

You need to experiment a lot. I haven't done much MTL vaping with many exotic coils but my feeling is that the exotics are better for higher power bigger air direct lung vapes. But each to their own.

 

[CJB85]

Hi @CJB85

The MTL vape is certainly a great one for me. But I like it for its strong throat hit - like a punch in the throat as you take a drag. So I like higher nic juices and love tobaccoes in MTL. I also like fruity menthols in MTL. I find the menthol helps a bit with the throat hit. Not sure what a zero nic MTL vape would be like - but maybe menthol could help you get some throat hit without the nic.

As far as coils go, its a strange one and I think its device specific.

In my RM2 on my Reo I have tried the most coils and have settled on a simple 29g Kanthal paracoil. 1.6mm ID (tiny) and 5 double wraps - comes out at about 0.45 ohms. It gives me the crispness I crave and the instant ramp up. When I try putting "exotics" in the RM2 (eg claptons) it doesnt work as well. Takes longer to warm up the coil and the vape is less crisp.

On the Siren and Rose MTL RTAs, I have tried far less coils. Seems like on the Rose the claptons do quite well. Not as crisp as I probably would like but its good. Quite a dense flavour. My coil is about 0.75 ohms and I am vaping it at about 20 Watts. Incidentally, that wattage is about the "mech equivalent" for a 0.75 ohm coil. i.e. V squared / R.

You need to experiment a lot. I haven't done much MTL vaping with many exotic coils but my feeling is that the exotics are better for higher power bigger air direct lung vapes. But each to their own.

So simple wire is good for getting instant (or quicker) heat and flavour, especially at lower watts?
It would definitely be good news, I think @CaliGuy also said he uses simpler wire, but changes coils very often to keep them crisp.
I will keep playing and try to remember to document everything I try, maybe it can help the next guy.

 

[Silver]

So simple wire is good for getting instant (or quicker) heat and flavour, especially at lower watts?
It would definitely be good news, I think @CaliGuy also said he uses simpler wire, but changes coils very often to keep them crisp.
I will keep playing and try to remember to document everything I try, maybe it can help the next guy.

I have used the VandyVape superfine MTL calpton wire - and its very good - but to me the vape is less crisp. And it takes a little bit longer to warm up.

Try out some normal wires - 26g, 28g. Just to see the difference. You can try SS, Kanthal or NI80. It really is about experimentation. What I have found is that the thinner the wire the crisper the vape. The smaller the ID, the vape is also crisper (but then the downside is less liquid in the wick). It's a balancing act and dont be scared to try out new options all the time. Vary one thing at a time - vape on it for a while - and make notes as you go.

Don't forget that positioning of the coil also can make quite a big difference in some devices. I.e. height above the airhole (for most MTL RTAs)

I've probably tried at least 50 coil variants in my RM2 in the first two or three years. To find what works best for me for my juice in there.

 

[CJB85]

I have used the VandyVape superfine MTL calpton wire - and its very good - but to me the vape is less crisp. And it takes a little bit longer to warm up.

Try out some normal wires - 26g, 28g. Just to see the difference. You can try SS, Kanthal or NI80. It really is about experimentation. What I have found is that the thinner the wire the crisper the vape. The smaller the ID, the vape is also crisper (but then the downside is less liquid in the wick). It's a balancing act and dont be scared to try out new options all the time. Vary one thing at a time - vape on it for a while - and make notes as you go.

Don't forget that positioning of the coil also can make quite a big difference in some devices. I.e. height above the airhole (for most MTL RTAs)

I've probably tried at least 50 coil variants in my RM2 in the first two or three years. To find what works best for me for my juice in there.

Thank you, looking forward to making some epic mistakes to find what works best!

 

[CaliGuy]

@CJB85 save your money and get yourself a spool of Ni80 26g Round Wire, which is rather hard to find in vape stores these days, the R200 exocitic coil is not the way to go for MTL.

If you can find Vandy Vape, Geekvape or any other brand round wire you will have an affordable way to try different coils configuration with a coil costing you about R2.00, cheap enough to replace the coil each time you rewick.

Also get yourself the “Coil Builder” App for your phone. Allows you to plug in different coil build to work out the Ohm based on wire type, coil diameter, amp draw, wattage range etc. very useful App and the paid Pro version adds the exotic coil builds. Below is an example of the App show a building using Ni80 26g wire.



As for a MTL setup, you want a coil in mostly 2.5mm diameter ohm’ing out at 0.60 to 1.00. You can use a lower Ohm coil on say 0.40 Ohm and still vape at 12w to 20w, the coil will take a little longer to heat up though. Hence most MTL coils for standard free base Nic are in the 0.70 to 0.85 Ohm range. I find the wattage sweat spot for me to be around 16w to 18w.

You can also try the Vandy Vape Super Fine MTL ready made coils as suggested or just get a spool this MTL wire and make your own coils, either one costs R100 or so. But only get this wire spec 30g*2 +38g as shown in the next pics. Vandy Vape make an even finer version but it horrible to work as it is very flimsy, avoid this spec 32g*2 +38g




The Coilology Framed Stapled MTL ready made coils and wire spool is also a option, the wire is a little stiffer than the Vandy Vape MTL wire so the coils don’t distort as much when you put to much cotton threw it for example but this wire builds at a slightly lower resistance so you need 2x more wraps on average to get to a 0.85 Ohm build. See below coil built using this wire and the coil building app.



Flavour wise I get good results from all the options I have mentioned. Very little difference between round wire and fancy MTL wire. I do prefer round wire for the fruity and tobacco juice and use the MTL Fused Clapton or Framed Staple wire if I feel the MTL juice profile is more complex.

Also for me MTL juice and getting flavour from it also depends on the Juice Maker, some are simple not very flavourful and one cant blame MTL equipment for this lack of flavour if the juice is very subtle. Check out Steam Masters, Joose-E-Liqz and Majestic Vapor MTL ranges, they have some very flavorful Profiles that work well a low wattage.

And get bottle of Pied Piper Redwood Tobacco, hands down the best locally made tobacco juice, a very authentic tasting and interesting profile which might just change your perception on vaping tobacco MTL juice.

 

[Beethoven]

May I ask where to get Redwood?

 

[Room Fogger]

May I ask where to get Redwood?

@GSM500 will know who has stock locally, or The Good Guys in PE should have.

 

[Silver]

@CJB85 save your money and get yourself a spoil of Ni80 26g Round Wire rather hard to find in vape stores these days as everyone thinks fancy R200 coil is the way to go for everyone.

If you can find Vandy Vape, Geekvape or any other brand round wire you have cheap wire to try different coils as about R2.00 a coil.

Also get yourself the “Coil Builder” app for your phone. Allows you to plug in different coil build to work out the Ohm based on wire type, coil diameter etc. very useful. Below is an example of the app show a building using Ni80 26g wire.

View attachment 165475

As for MTL, you want a coil in mostly 2.5mm diameter ohm’ing out at 0.60 to 1.00. You can use a lower Ohm coil on say 0.40 Ohm and still vape at 12w to 20w MTL Style just the Coil will take a little longer to heat up. Hence why most MTL coils for standard free base Nic are in the 0.70 to 0.85 Ohm range. And I find the wattage sweat spot to be around 16w to 18w.

You can also try the Vandy Vape Super Fine MTL ready made coils as suggested or just get a spoil this MTL wire and make your own coils, either one costs R100 or so. But only get this wire spec below 30g*2 +38g
They make an even finer version but it horriable to work as it is very flimsy, avoid this spec 32g*2 +38g

View attachment 165477
View attachment 165479

The Coilology Framed Stapled MTL coils and Wire Spool is also a option, the wire is a little stiffer than the Vandy Vape MTL wire so the coils don’t distort as much of you put to much cotton threw it for example but this wire builds at a slightly lower resistance so you need 2x more wraps on average to get to a 0.85 Ohm build. See below coil building using this wire and the coil building app.

View attachment 165478

Flavour wise I get good results from a the options I have mentioned. Very little difference between round wire and fancy MTL wire. I do prefer round wire for fruity and tobacco juice and use the MTL Fused Clapton or Framed Staple wire if I feel the MTL juice profile is more complex.

Also for me MTL juice and getting flavour from it depends on the Juice Maker, some are simple not very flavourful and you can’t always blame MTL equipment for this lack of flavour if the juice is very subtle. Check out Steam Masters and Majestic Vapor MTL ranges, very flavourful at low wattage cause they are not shy with their concentrates.

And get bottle of Pied Piper Redwood Tobacco, hands down the best locally made tobacco juice, a very authentic taste which might just change your perception on vaping tobacco MTL juice.

Excellent post @CaliGuy !
Thanks

 

[CaliGuy]

Excellent post @CaliGuy !
Thanks

Thanks Silver, I don’t have the years of experience that you have under your belt but was inspired to try out MTL from reading all your posts.

As a MTL newbie I did take the time to try a lot of different things to arrive at what works for me, which is something that you covered in your post so well.

 

[ARYANTO]

Hey guys
Decided to roll the dice on my Berserker (AGAIN) after the previous two leaked around the third refill.
I took some inspiration from something @Silver said in his Siren 2 review page, about more wraps getting the wicks further from the airflow holes and preventing a juice river.

I used the coil that comes in the little baggie of the Berserker (.7 Ohms, clapton is all I could find out about it), the first one (that the shops installed) was at 0.68. I decided to add (if I remember correctly) 2 additional wraps (all the deck width would allow for my lack of installation skills) and it now Ohms at 0.81.

I am playing around with the wattage and seems the middle hole and 17W is pretty decent. Is 17W within what you guys would recommend, or should I be looking higher/lower? I am currently vaping that Molinberry M-line Bounty (mixed from a one-shot), but will probably move to something coffee soon.

On a side note and for future reference, I have been wondering about coils for MTL on this Berserker. I popped into Vape King Menlyn (yes, I know, but I was hunting for silicone battery sleeves and they were the 5th shop I visited) and during the discussion, the guy behind the counter said they have been big fans of Berserkers and VV products in general for a long time. He appeared to be (appeared) to know what he is talking about and recommended some fused clapton coils from Coil Company, all fine so far. When he showed them to me, they were 3mm ID coils and I, being a noob, said they look too large for the Berserker build deck. He said they will fir 100%, I bought, they didn't fit... Lesson learned. My question rising from this, is what wire, which ID and how many wraps do you recommend I try first when it is time for a new coil?

Lastly, what are some really awesome awesome juices (preferably ones that come in one-shot format) for MTL, that are not tobacco based? I am doing 3mg Nic at the moment but want to go Nic-free soon.

Better still: ask the vape guy to install them and test them for you ...name dropping....Lung candy in Norwood does it with a smile ![and tells you where to get a beer while you wait.