Didn’t notice your avatar till now, very sneaky....didn’t know you were a founding member
Didn’t notice your avatar till now, very sneaky....didn’t know you were a founding member
B
BioHAZarD
Guest
Lekker sharp
There is no pace for clones in the world. By buying clones you support anarchy. No economy can survive if there is no control over cloning. There will be no incentive or protection for entrepreneurs to develop new products, unemployment will rise and economies will fall. At the end all you will be able to buy is cheap unreliable untested products.
Buying clones is something rightwing doomsday preppers do, they want anarchy. There is not enough grey matter between the ears to realize the longterm concequences.
Not having money is a !oad of BS. If you dont have money, you should not have smoked in the first place, nevermind vape.
Buying clones is something rightwing doomsday preppers do, they want anarchy. There is not enough grey matter between the ears to realize the longterm concequences.
Not having money is a !oad of BS. If you dont have money, you should not have smoked in the first place, nevermind vape.
bollocks! left wing antifa “happy’s” THRIVE on cheap goods or did “living under a black flag” all of a sudden change its meaning? not having money means gold or silver standards returning as they RIGHTfully should. chaos and anarchy belongs to the left, the right has always sought order, aka facism, tradition and seek to Conserve.
Hey bud.
Just a few quick questions:
Have you ever downloaded a movie or watched a movie downloaded from a torrent website?
Have you ever downloaded a tv series or watched a tv series downloaded from a torrent website?
Have you ever downloaded an MP3 without paying royalties to the artist?
Have you ever bought a packet of cigarettes from a stall on the side of the road?
Have you ever downloaded an illegal copy of a game on your PC without paying for it?
If the answer is yes to one or any of the above then you have engaged in or you have condoned the theft of intellectual property; which is essentially the basis of cloning
You are like a seesaw bud and is your doomsday predictions based on facts or times in history?
Well I trust you have all had fun and at some peoples expense… this thread really makes me sad… it’s what is wrong with social media… but let me talk for a second about the No Clone Zone… most of you may or may not be aware that a lot of legitimate vape shops are under a lot of financial pressure now that vaping has become main stream and the less than ethical people are coming out of the woodwork… they see vaping as a way to make a quick buck and has nothing to do with the passion that most proper vape stores have in the struggle to get people off stinkies and onto vaping.
A lot of these side-line stores that sell all sorts of crap are now stocking counterfeit juices and clone hardware and the result is that legitimate vape stores are under pressure and may even end up closing… I have had a chat to a few stores in the JHB and PTA area recently and some are even reporting an 80% drop in turnover due to the shop down the street or across the road selling fake juices and hardware. Yes, I guess the proliferation of vape outlets hasn’t helped either.
The other thing to realise is that Joe Average who is not on the forum or Facebook groups have no idea what they are buying and walk into a vape store… check the prices and go across the road and save money on Clone Gear.
Let’s talk about ethics and intellectual property for a second… yes we have all downloaded movies and music in our time and bought a t-shirt from a street vendor or at a flea market but vaping is our passion and in a lot of cases has saved lives and it’s our hobby and our community… do we really want to be associated with clones, fakes and counterfeits?
Yes a lot of us that have been around the vaping scene for a few years has bought and tried clones because in those days we couldn’t get the authentics and that was all we could buy back in the day… but now there are so many excellent Chinese products that work really well there really is no need to buy a product who’s design has been stolen and replicated by unscrupulous manufacturers (many of which are from China) who don’t give a shit about stealing someone’s else work to make a buck.
Yes I feel strongly about the cloning of high end products because in a lot of cases I know and have met a lot of the modders and I feel really bad for them that I get excited about great authentic products in SA and then the clones start arriving in the country… Billet Box, Skyline and Dvarw to name a couple of products I was first to enjoy in SA. You would feel the same way if a mate of yours was getting shafted.
As a matter of interest without any marketing over a 100 vendors have joined the No Clone Zone without any pressure at all… this only goes to show that the industry and the many of SA’s vaping vendors feel this is a very relevant topic and it will continue to garner support.
That is my 2c worth… and I’m not going to get into a long drawn out discussion because I simply don’t have the time or the inclination to respond to drama and trolling… All I’m interested in is promoting the hobby and passion we call vaping in SA.
A lot of these side-line stores that sell all sorts of crap are now stocking counterfeit juices and clone hardware and the result is that legitimate vape stores are under pressure and may even end up closing… I have had a chat to a few stores in the JHB and PTA area recently and some are even reporting an 80% drop in turnover due to the shop down the street or across the road selling fake juices and hardware. Yes, I guess the proliferation of vape outlets hasn’t helped either.
The other thing to realise is that Joe Average who is not on the forum or Facebook groups have no idea what they are buying and walk into a vape store… check the prices and go across the road and save money on Clone Gear.
Let’s talk about ethics and intellectual property for a second… yes we have all downloaded movies and music in our time and bought a t-shirt from a street vendor or at a flea market but vaping is our passion and in a lot of cases has saved lives and it’s our hobby and our community… do we really want to be associated with clones, fakes and counterfeits?
Yes a lot of us that have been around the vaping scene for a few years has bought and tried clones because in those days we couldn’t get the authentics and that was all we could buy back in the day… but now there are so many excellent Chinese products that work really well there really is no need to buy a product who’s design has been stolen and replicated by unscrupulous manufacturers (many of which are from China) who don’t give a shit about stealing someone’s else work to make a buck.
Yes I feel strongly about the cloning of high end products because in a lot of cases I know and have met a lot of the modders and I feel really bad for them that I get excited about great authentic products in SA and then the clones start arriving in the country… Billet Box, Skyline and Dvarw to name a couple of products I was first to enjoy in SA. You would feel the same way if a mate of yours was getting shafted.
As a matter of interest without any marketing over a 100 vendors have joined the No Clone Zone without any pressure at all… this only goes to show that the industry and the many of SA’s vaping vendors feel this is a very relevant topic and it will continue to garner support.
That is my 2c worth… and I’m not going to get into a long drawn out discussion because I simply don’t have the time or the inclination to respond to drama and trolling… All I’m interested in is promoting the hobby and passion we call vaping in SA.
You guys are complaining for three days that someone must take a bite out the apple, so since noin of the movement came, I decided to keep the thread going
You guys are complaining for three days that someone must take a bite out the apple, so since noin of the movement came, I decided to keep the thread going
Bloody troll
thank you for been the meat this hungry pack of dogs were after
Listen Mina Moo, you can dislike all my post, Constand Bester will proof you wrong
Listen Mina Moo, you can dislike all my post, Constand Bester will proof you wrong
Dude the cow thing is my thing, i have the rights to dis it approved by the owner, stop cloning my thing
Hi all
This thread was created to discuss the topic of clones - where some posts were moved here so it could have a place. (They were in the Whats in your hand thread)
To those that have added constructive commentary, thank you - as I said in one of my posts, its great to hear different points of view.
But please, if you want to continue commenting here, keep it respectful and on topic. And don't get personal or make personal insults. There are so many "nonsense" posts and off-topic posts - that one has to click through pages of it to get to the constructive commentary. This only serves to make the poster look bad and it paints the forum in a bad light.
If you are not going to post valid constructive commentary and the thread continues much like it has before, then it will have to be locked. And that would not be a good thing.
Thank you
This thread was created to discuss the topic of clones - where some posts were moved here so it could have a place. (They were in the Whats in your hand thread)
To those that have added constructive commentary, thank you - as I said in one of my posts, its great to hear different points of view.
But please, if you want to continue commenting here, keep it respectful and on topic. And don't get personal or make personal insults. There are so many "nonsense" posts and off-topic posts - that one has to click through pages of it to get to the constructive commentary. This only serves to make the poster look bad and it paints the forum in a bad light.
If you are not going to post valid constructive commentary and the thread continues much like it has before, then it will have to be locked. And that would not be a good thing.
Thank you
Thank you uncle @Rob Fisher . I think a lot of us on "consumer level" just wanted to get a bit of clarity on what the NCZ really is about.
Thank you.
From my side I apologize to the community for my emotional responses. We are all better than this and at the end of the day its about the community and staying healthy. I'm sure one day we'll have a beer and laugh about this sillyness.... Gooi Wolke Pappa!
B
BioHAZarD
Guest
Hi @Rob Fisher
Thank you for the detailed response. Appreciate it.
You raise some very valid points. As you have stated there will be no drawn out discussion so I will just list some thoughts. These can be acted on as required if decided to do so.
The IP thing is a non-event as it becomes a legal interpretation and I don't hold myself out to be a lawyer. My personal views on this are clear. If you want it to be yours. Patent it. The customer is paying enough to warrant the expense.
I am a little uncertain about how the fact that vaping has become more mainstream has suddenly placed vendors under such dire financial pressures. The less than ethical people you refer to happen to have been the major vape shops up until the middle or so of this year. They had a healthy stock of Clones available to the public. Now that smaller shops are also doing it they suddenly cry foul. I don't quite buy that. Certain vendors made an absolute killing out of some of the popular cloned Facebook list items. They now have the audacity to say. "Hey wait, I am the only one that is allowed to benefit from that tactic". Not cool (if can quote you from our previous discussion)
Another fact that baffles me is that the larger shops are expanding and not getting smaller. You don't open more stores if you are under financial strain. That would be business suicide. For the smaller stores, sure they may be under pressure. To solely blame it on clones I think would be premature. Some investigations would have to be made into their business models, cash flow patterns and capital base. They may have been overextended to begin with.
Another consideration is that the market as it stands currently may have reached some form of saturation point. Vendors should be grateful for the fact that we are willing to buy any new bloody atty that is released like a bunch of sheep. Financially this is not a sustainable endeavor. The market is just correcting itself.
In terms of fake juice I think i can speak for almost everybody that we don't support cloned juice. There are two distinct variations. The one where the packing and all other aspects has been copied and is being sold as the real deal. The other which i have yet to encounter is where someone sells a "coppervape" version of a branded ejuice.
I honestly don't care about Joe Average. Knowledge is power. You want to vape. Do your research.
Last thought. I don't think anybody has an in principle problem with your initiative. But there needs to be clear lines. Either ban all the vendors on this forum that don't comply or keep if off the forum entirely.
I hope this does not offend anybody.
CB
Thank you for the detailed response. Appreciate it.
You raise some very valid points. As you have stated there will be no drawn out discussion so I will just list some thoughts. These can be acted on as required if decided to do so.
The IP thing is a non-event as it becomes a legal interpretation and I don't hold myself out to be a lawyer. My personal views on this are clear. If you want it to be yours. Patent it. The customer is paying enough to warrant the expense.
I am a little uncertain about how the fact that vaping has become more mainstream has suddenly placed vendors under such dire financial pressures. The less than ethical people you refer to happen to have been the major vape shops up until the middle or so of this year. They had a healthy stock of Clones available to the public. Now that smaller shops are also doing it they suddenly cry foul. I don't quite buy that. Certain vendors made an absolute killing out of some of the popular cloned Facebook list items. They now have the audacity to say. "Hey wait, I am the only one that is allowed to benefit from that tactic". Not cool (if can quote you from our previous discussion)
Another fact that baffles me is that the larger shops are expanding and not getting smaller. You don't open more stores if you are under financial strain. That would be business suicide. For the smaller stores, sure they may be under pressure. To solely blame it on clones I think would be premature. Some investigations would have to be made into their business models, cash flow patterns and capital base. They may have been overextended to begin with.
Another consideration is that the market as it stands currently may have reached some form of saturation point. Vendors should be grateful for the fact that we are willing to buy any new bloody atty that is released like a bunch of sheep. Financially this is not a sustainable endeavor. The market is just correcting itself.
In terms of fake juice I think i can speak for almost everybody that we don't support cloned juice. There are two distinct variations. The one where the packing and all other aspects has been copied and is being sold as the real deal. The other which i have yet to encounter is where someone sells a "coppervape" version of a branded ejuice.
I honestly don't care about Joe Average. Knowledge is power. You want to vape. Do your research.
Last thought. I don't think anybody has an in principle problem with your initiative. But there needs to be clear lines. Either ban all the vendors on this forum that don't comply or keep if off the forum entirely.
I hope this does not offend anybody.
CB
Last edited by a moderator:
B
BioHAZarD
Guest
Hey @Daniel i am sure we may have a beer at some stage. No idea how the evening will end after a couple though. Just to clarify.... non of the pot shots were personal ... well mostly not
So my next question.when a HE product is cloned do they sell they rights to other companies like sxk?
Or does sxk and other manufacturers just start cloning tip sellers?
Or does sxk and other manufacturers just start cloning tip sellers?
If they buy rights hen that product would not be clone ,but rather AM.
So would an AM product be called a clone?
So would an AM product be called a clone?
Ok so in an attempt to get this thread back on track here's my personal take on the clone wars:
I do not specifically promote or condemn the use of clones. I own both clone and authentic hardware.
My thought process on a getting an authentic or clone product is based on the following factors:
Price - can I afford the authentic or can I only afford the clone?
Availability - do I have to join a Facebook group and hope to get lucky to purchase the product or is it available locally? (I'm not on FB btw)
Functionality - is the clone safe to use and does it function the same way the authentic was intended to? Eg clone juices are always a no no as I do not know if it is safe to use, but clone hardware constructed out of the same materials will be safe to use
Desirability - how badly do I want the product? Eg last year I was looking for an authentic broadside but despite the fact that they are hard to get I watched the classifieds section like a hawk for two months until i found an authentic. I desired this product so much I waited until I found an authentic.
Lastly people who get on their high horses and yell "no clone zone" yet engage in other intellectual property theft ( movies, series, games, etc) are hypocrites and irritate the daylights out of me. If you've engaged in IP theft in the past and now had a change of heart then great, but don't go putting others down for doing the same thing you did not too long ago
Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
I do not specifically promote or condemn the use of clones. I own both clone and authentic hardware.
My thought process on a getting an authentic or clone product is based on the following factors:
Price - can I afford the authentic or can I only afford the clone?
Availability - do I have to join a Facebook group and hope to get lucky to purchase the product or is it available locally? (I'm not on FB btw)
Functionality - is the clone safe to use and does it function the same way the authentic was intended to? Eg clone juices are always a no no as I do not know if it is safe to use, but clone hardware constructed out of the same materials will be safe to use
Desirability - how badly do I want the product? Eg last year I was looking for an authentic broadside but despite the fact that they are hard to get I watched the classifieds section like a hawk for two months until i found an authentic. I desired this product so much I waited until I found an authentic.
Lastly people who get on their high horses and yell "no clone zone" yet engage in other intellectual property theft ( movies, series, games, etc) are hypocrites and irritate the daylights out of me. If you've engaged in IP theft in the past and now had a change of heart then great, but don't go putting others down for doing the same thing you did not too long ago
Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
Just two things. Our economy is not doing well, bussinesses in all sectors are closing down, from food, construction, services etc. So surely cloning cant be the culprit?scapegoat for bussinesses closing? I in fact just see new vape shops opening everywhere.
Then, as I said before. On avarage juice work out at over R3300/L for your average juices. That is totally ridiculous. I was at chinatown on saturday buying 80m of ropelights for a client. The shop also sells what I pressume is fake juice at like R50 for Fantasi. Since I was there for almost 30min, not 3min past where someone did not buy a few juices. Now if the industry was so concerned about the community and protecting the industry, rather than making huge profits at R3300/l, then this would have been their main concern a long time ago. How can your aim be to get people of smoking but it will cost them way more on juice?
How can something made from cheap concentrates cost R3300/l where you can buy fillet steak for R150/kg, Crayfish for a tenth of that? You van buy wine, that has millions invested and researched etc, matured for a few years, for less than that?
This is where the shops are making their money, and ripping customers off, and at those prices they are feeding the clone wars themselves.
If anyone can diy juice at R400/l without even buying wholesale or in bulk, then a proper company can make it and get it sold by vendors for less than R1000/L and everyone will still have proper profit margins and the clones at chinatown will die a quick death
Then, as I said before. On avarage juice work out at over R3300/L for your average juices. That is totally ridiculous. I was at chinatown on saturday buying 80m of ropelights for a client. The shop also sells what I pressume is fake juice at like R50 for Fantasi. Since I was there for almost 30min, not 3min past where someone did not buy a few juices. Now if the industry was so concerned about the community and protecting the industry, rather than making huge profits at R3300/l, then this would have been their main concern a long time ago. How can your aim be to get people of smoking but it will cost them way more on juice?
How can something made from cheap concentrates cost R3300/l where you can buy fillet steak for R150/kg, Crayfish for a tenth of that? You van buy wine, that has millions invested and researched etc, matured for a few years, for less than that?
This is where the shops are making their money, and ripping customers off, and at those prices they are feeding the clone wars themselves.
If anyone can diy juice at R400/l without even buying wholesale or in bulk, then a proper company can make it and get it sold by vendors for less than R1000/L and everyone will still have proper profit margins and the clones at chinatown will die a quick death
B
BioHAZarD
Guest
Dude you are all over the place. I can't keep track of which side of the fence you on or even if you are in the same district as said fence.
You all asked for a fight and no one responded, so I just took the other side to keep it entertainng, but now the bone got taken, so Im back on my side. Or you want me on the other side again?
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