New to MTL questions.

[Raindance]

Hi all.

Due to practical considerations I have decided to run both MTL and my usual D2L as daily drivers. The main reason being that it is becoming increasingly difficult to conduct my D2L vaping covertly.

Having just received my MTL setup yesterday, I now realize how little I actually know of this style of vaping. That from a perspective of being strictly DIY in terms of coils and juice. I find myself double guessing all my decisions and assumptions and wish to ask the pro's to help me separate fact from fiction.

My current setup:
Cthulhu MTL RTA. 2.5ID Kanthal 28AWG at 1.35 Ohm. Cotton wick. 1.2mm airflow restriction insert. 70/30 tobacco juice at 3mg Nic. Single 18650 DNA75 mod firing at 18.5W power mode.

What I wish to confirm:
1. MTL setups are best run on high ohm (1 to 1.8 Ohm) coils.
2. Because of the high coil resistance, battery drain is less.
3. It is normal for a juice to taste noticeably different on MTL compared D2L.
4. Juice consumption will be less - considerably.
5. MTL favors a different flavor profile than D2L.
6. I will need to make separate juice for MTL use and double the Nic% in these.
7. MTL is mostly run in Power (W) mode.
8. Aim at making coils requiring between 3.2 and 4 volts when firing at preferred wattage.
9. Narrower driptips perform better for MTL.

Any contributions seting me straight on the above will be much appreciated.

As a side issue, please partake in the poll above, it would be interesting to see how many people mix vaping styles and to what degree.

Regards and Thanks

 

[Andre]

1. MTL setups are best run on high ohm (1 to 1.8 Ohm) coils.
I do an airy (as opposed to tight) MTL on my Reos from 0.4 for tobaccos to around 0.8 for fruity juices. On regulated devices it matters not too much - I vape between 20 and 30 W, depending on the resistance and juice.
2. Because of the high coil resistance, battery drain is less.
Yes.
3. It is normal for a juice to taste noticeably different on MTL compared D2L.
Flavour intensity for me is more with MTL - more taste buds exposure.
4. Juice consumption will be less - considerably.
Yes.
5. MTL favors a different flavor profile than D2L.
Not in my experience.
6. I will need to make separate juice for MTL use and double the Nic% in these.
Yes, higher nic might be required.
7. MTL is mostly run in Power (W) mode.
No, can be run with good effect in Temp. mode too.
8. Aim at making coils requiring between 3.2 and 4 volts when firing at preferred wattage.
No idea, on my mechs I look at the Watt output. On my regulated devices I also just adjust Watts.
9. Narrower driptips perform better for MTL.
For sure, smaller bore drip tips (becoming scarce) are better for MTL.

 

[Raindance]

@Andre, thanks for the valuable info. It's weird how "lost" I feel on this subject.

Also thanks to those of you taking the effort to do the poll thingy, I used to think most people are either one or the other but the stats are indicating something different.

Its been a strange day in terms of vaping in between my normal weekend domestic functions. Rebuilt three times, on SS316 at the moment. Think I will give TC a pass for now. Kanthal on straight Watts seems to give the best results for now. In terms of flavor, my Peanut Butter and Banana seems to push the Banana a lot more on the MTL setup. My Copperhead Road, which is rather "wild" on big air is rather well balanced and rounded on MTL. Early days yet, all that could change overnight.

Part of my worries is that I have no idea how "good" my tank is. Being my first MTL setup, it could be total crap and I would be none the wiser. (Sigh!) Seems there may be a Skyclone and airdiscks and stuff like that arriving via courier pretty soon.
Must admit that as part of the run up to this move I did recoil some of my first commercial clearomiser coils just to test if I could MTL. Trying to MTL on my D2L tanks, even with airflow totally closed, was just plain awful. Compared to those the Ctluthulu... is a freaking masterpiece. (Who was the bright spark that came up with that name?)

In any case, anybody wishing to broaden my knowledge by sharing their opinions and experience is welcome and invited to do so.

Best Regards

 

[DaveH]

@Raindance I would like to share my experiences and opinions if I may.

First and foremost there are no right or wrong way to MTL vape, obviously some ways may seem better than others.
Some like a warm vape [Some Like It Hot .......now there's a good name for a film ] others don't, I'm one of those who likes a cool vape. A cool vape means a low wattage and for me that is under 20 watts, this is just me.

I also like an airy vape (like Andre) case in point I like the Cubis tank, air flow wide open 0.6ohm coil 15 to 16 watts, also I use the MeloIII tank often with ceramic coils 0.5, 0.6 and 0.9ohms air flow 75% wide open, vape at 16 to 18watts. I don't use a restricted or narrow bore mouth piece as I find it sometimes on a long pull the vape gets too hot and burns my tongue so I just use a normal mouth piece.

One of the main problems with MTL is getting a decent flavour whilst still having a cool vape. To get a nice flavour a certain amount of vapour is required, so it ends up matching the low wattage coil to the air hole. With commercial tanks this is done for you and is why some tanks are better for MTL than DTL and visa versa.

I see you will be getting a Skyline clone - well you are going to luv it - fantastic tank for the MTL see https://www.ecigssa.co.za/low-wattage-m2l-tank.t40294/ try to get the coil length so it covers the air slot hole (it is not round) wick it and you will be over the moon.
If you are lucky you may even be able the do a restricted DTL on the same setting What more can one want

Dave

 

[aktorsyl]

I use MTL during the day at work on a Nautilus 2, mostly. I'm using 1.6 ohm coils in there, running at around 10-12 watts. Comes to about 4.1 volts. Currently I have it on the Aspire Zelos mod, which has a 2000mAh internal battery (correct me if I'm wrong, it's late). It lasts me about 2-3 days on a charge. Bloody efficient. As for the flavour, it's on point. It's different than DTL, but mostly because the vapour is hanging around in your mouth for longer on the inhale, while the exhale has much less vapour. Basically a reverse of the exposure of vapour to the taste receptors with DTL. I prefer tobacco juices for MTL, but anything works, really. I'm also very fond of a peach&apricot juice that I have for MTL.

So my MTL session usually starts at around 7am, and ends at 6pm'ish. During that time, I use about 2ml's of juice. I vape about once an hour for a few minutes at a time. So yes - very low juice consumption, very good battery life.

As far as nicotine content goes, I have 3mg in my DTL juices, and 9mg in my MTL. That balance works pretty well for me.

Lastly, yes I use very narrow driptips for MTL.

During the evenings, I use RDA's and tanks. Well, RDA's currently.

 

[Silver]

GreatL thread @Raindance and interesting poll

I was a MTL-only vaper for quite a long time - about 18 months until my vaping buddies (points finger at @Alex ) nudged me to try Direct Lung. I resisted it for quite a while. Now I probably do direct lung hits 60% of the time

For me the difference between the two revolves around the throat hit. I find the throat hit i get with a high nic juice on MTL is more intense. Its like a short, sharp, hard and focused punch in the back of the throat. Made more focused with additional menthol. With direct lung, its a totally different sensation. I cant do the same nic strength because its just unpleasant but when i drop the nic to something nicely vapeable, the throat hit becomes a throat rub, not a punch. Its a gentle rubbing that has a cumulative sort of effect instead of a sharp punch. So if the nic is too high, after say 10-15 mins of repetitive puffing I feel slightly light headed and woosy, not pleasant. But no satisfying punch in the throat while taking the puffs.

Therefore, for me, when I feel the urge for a good nic hit, i will reach for my high nic MTL. In the mornings with coffee, after meals and at some other times especially when i havent vaped for a while. That short sharp punch satisfies me.

The rest of the time I do direct lung - mainly quite restricted and at lowish power. Its like "maintenance mode" vaping. More "volume" of flavour (not necessarily more accurate flavour) and a gentle rubbing of the throat, which satisfies me over a longer period. I vape at my desk so I take a few toots about every 15 mins or so.

Regarding flavours, for me MTL is better with strong tobaccoes and highly mentholated fruity vapes. Buts thats probably more because those flavours deliver the throat hit I am seeking. I have noticed desserts dont taste as good for me on MTL (but im not a big dessert vaper anyway)

The problem for me is that my throat hit needs higher nic - at least 12mg but i prefer 18mg. And 50/50 works better for me in my setups. These nic strengths and ratios are not widely commercially available so I am somewhat limited. The higher VG 3mg juices mostly on sale today dont deliver throat hit anywhere near what I crave on my MTL setups, so its for that reason (and to enjoy some of the newer flavours coming out) that I probably vape more direct lung than I would otherwise.

I like short strong puffs in MTL. My favourite MTL setups are my Reo/RM2 for tobaccoes - 0.5 ohm coil (implied 30Watts). And my little Evod for fruit menthol - 1.8ohm at about 7 Watts. MTL definitely goes through way less juice. Especially the higher the nic. A few toots and i can feel satisfied for quite a while.

I like both styles of vaping and see myself continuing with both

 

[Ryangriffon]

Hi. I just ordererd the ijoy elf tank which got good mtl reviews. Eden mods is also bringing out the Trillion on 7 August which looks great (Kabuki killer?). These tanks do use premade coils. I build for the Kayfuns but do love the bvc coils for mtl vaping. Chat again. Have a great day?

 

[Raindance]

I appreciate the above advice and contributions by everyone. It is being quite a ride.

Strangely enough @Silver my motives are to use the MTL as "maintenance" vape during the day and switching to the D2L setups for some quality time in the clouds. This could change as I seem to be enjoying the MTL style a lot as well, when i get it working properly.

Its been a hectic two days with many coils built and lots of cotton piling up in the ashtray. A bit frustrated at this moment and will take up the struggle again later. Think I may have inflicted Vapers Tongue on myself.

Any case, thanks and Regards

 

[Silver]

I appreciate the above advice and contributions by everyone. It is being quite a ride.

Strangely enough @Silver my motives are to use the MTL as "maintenance" vape during the day and switching to the D2L setups for some quality time in the clouds. This could change as I seem to be enjoying the MTL style a lot as well, when i get it working properly.

Its been a hectic two days with many coils built and lots of cotton piling up in the ashtray. A bit frustrated at this moment and will take up the struggle again later. Think I may have inflicted Vapers Tongue on myself.

Any case, thanks and Regards

I agree, it is strange that I use restricted lung for "maintenance vaping" and MTL for throat hit.
But let me go further and explain.

When I am working on the computer I prefer a grab n vape. The Reo is great but I prefer a non-squonker for "mindless vaping". I have a Lemo1 with a Strawberry menthol blend, which for me produces such superb sharp flavour, so that is my main restricted lung maintenance vape. Low power - 12 watts - and a simple single coil around 1.2 ohms. The Lemo1 takes a lot of juice so its a dream. I refill about every two days with my usage. Its on a Sig100+. Incidentally, no other setup beats this for me, flavour wise, reliability wise and capacity wise - all together.

The Reo/RM2 doesnt give me as much satisfaction on fruity menthols. Its nice but i just love the longer lung hits with menthols for that bit of throat burn towards the end of the drag. And then there's the squonking which although it becomes second nature, its still not as easy as grab n press, while working on other things.

Just to emphasize, my "maintenance mode" vape on the Lemo1 is nowhere near the intensity of most of the lung hitting bigger air RTAs one gets today. Mine is on low power and its quite restricted. Just enough air for a long, slow direct restricted lung hit.

 

[Christos]

@Raindance it's a strange topic for me as I assume I do DLH but the general consensus is the devices I use are MTL setups.
I like a tight restricted draw bit not one that hampers my ability to breath in.

I will however say I prefer a restricted draw on single coils at lower wattages as I get the desired effect and also battery life and juice consumption is less. I do my DLH on MTL setups ranging from 0.2 ohms to about 0.7 ohms.

Of late i find some of the airier devices to dilute the flavour with too much air. Imho less air means a more intense flavour delivery.

As for nicotine strength I am still happy to use 3mg in a 0.2 ohm single coil atty at 30w. I get decent cloud production.
I also use 6mg in a device for when I am short on time and don't have 10 minutes to vape etc or when I need that stronger hit.

Best if luck in finding your perfect place!

 

[Raindance]

Ok Guys. I am now starting to feel like the weird kid in the class. The one right in the back on the left hand side... you know which one I'm talking about.

I have tried just about all shapes and sizes of coils, high Watt's, low Watt's, TC at high temp and low. Mixed a Menthol concoction that defies belief and vaped it. As a last resort went out and bought a bottle of not so premium E-Liquid, cherry flavored, to see if I can rid myself of this dark magic. Nope, it all tastes like VG to me.

Ok, the Menthol concoction did a good job of demonstrating the connection between my ears, nose and throat. The cherry stuff is at 6% Nic, double my normal level, and had me seeing double after a short while. Tasted some cherry for a puff or two and then that went away as well.

The only thing I can still imagine is the VG/PG ratios of the juice. My DIY mixes are 70/30 VG/PG. The cherry stuff is a lot more runny, could it be the Nic that is killing the taste here?

What else could it be? What is left to try? Really starting to feel sorry for myself...

Help please?

 

[aktorsyl]

Ok Guys. I am now starting to feel like the weird kid in the class. The one right in the back on the left hand side... you know which one I'm talking about.

I have tried just about all shapes and sizes of coils, high Watt's, low Watt's, TC at high temp and low. Mixed a Menthol concoction that defies belief and vaped it. As a last resort went out and bought a bottle of not so premium E-Liquid, cherry flavored, to see if I can rid myself of this dark magic. Nope, it all tastes like VG to me.

Ok, the Menthol concoction did a good job of demonstrating the connection between my ears, nose and throat. The cherry stuff is at 6% Nic, double my normal level, and had me seeing double after a short while. Tasted some cherry for a puff or two and then that went away as well.

The only thing I can still imagine is the VG/PG ratios of the juice. My DIY mixes are 70/30 VG/PG. The cherry stuff is a lot more runny, could it be the Nic that is killing the taste here?

What else could it be? What is left to try? Really starting to feel sorry for myself...

Help please?

Random test, I know, but... get a glass of water. If you have lemon juice, pour a couple of drops in there. Then while drinking the water, take double puffs. Okay not WHILE drinking the water. But take a sip, wait a few seconds, take two puffs. Repeat. If it's vapers tongue, it'll taste stronger on the first puff, weaker on the second. The sip should "reset" it slightly.

If that's the case, then some extremely strong mints are in your near future.

 

[Raindance]

Thanks @aktorsyl. Will give that a try after the rebuild I'm busy with.

 

[Silver]

What happened with this @Raindance ?
Did you get sorted?

 

[Raindance]

What happened with this @Raindance ?
Did you get sorted?

@Silver. Actually gave up on this tank in favor of an old trust Sub Tank with RBA. Will come back to it for a second try at some time.

Thanks for asking.

Rergards

 

[Raindance]

Have been using the Cthulhu MTL tank a bit with a tobacco juice and finding it alright flavor wise. However, it lacks the Nic punch of my usual DL vaping style. I have reduced my normal ADV juice Nic content to 2.5mg over time and understand that this is way to low for MTL purposes. I however do not know at what level to mix MTL destined juice to get the same level of delivery. I do not want to raise my Nic requirement/dependancy by going to strong on the MTL juice and frankly have no idea what a comparative level would be.

Any advice or pointers?

Regards

 

[Silver]

Have been using the Cthulhu MTL tank a bit with a tobacco juice and finding it alright flavor wise. However, it lacks the Nic punch of my usual DL vaping style. I have reduced my normal ADV juice Nic content to 2.5mg over time and understand that this is way to low for MTL purposes. I however do not know at what level to mix MTL destined juice to get the same level of delivery. I do not want to raise my Nic requirement/dependancy by going to strong on the MTL juice and frankly have no idea what a comparative level would be.

Any advice or pointers?

Regards

Hi @Raindance
Good question and I am sure the answer will differ for various folk.

I can get away with 6mg for direct lung but need a minimum of 12mg for MTL, preferably 18mg
So i would say 2-3 times the nic strength (MTL versus direct lung) is the range for me to do MTL nicely

 

[Stosta]

Have been using the Cthulhu MTL tank a bit with a tobacco juice and finding it alright flavor wise. However, it lacks the Nic punch of my usual DL vaping style. I have reduced my normal ADV juice Nic content to 2.5mg over time and understand that this is way to low for MTL purposes. I however do not know at what level to mix MTL destined juice to get the same level of delivery. I do not want to raise my Nic requirement/dependancy by going to strong on the MTL juice and frankly have no idea what a comparative level would be.

Any advice or pointers?

Regards

Sadly I have found nothing that beats a good kick in the face that high nic will give you. I assume you're wanting more of a throat hit?

Perhaps one of the DIY gurus have some suggestions like @Andre , @RichJB or @rogue zombie ?

 

[rogue zombie]

Ya would double the nic, at least, for MTL.

 

[GregF]

Ya would double the nic, at least, for MTL.

I agree, at least double, probably more in the region of 3x

 

[Raindance]

@Silver, @Stosta, @rogue zombie and @GregF, thanks for the advice. The consensus seems to be double the DL level at a minimum, so I will be upping my 2.5mg to 6mg for MTL and dedicate some time developing (Read copying) tobacco juices for this purpose.

Much appreciated, thank you.

Edit, just remembered I did not answer Stosta's question. I am not so much of a throat hit seeker. The MTL serves me well for a while but then I get that "I need a fix" feeling. Although the MTL setup keeps me as occupied vaping as my DL setups, the reduction in juice consumption, and therefore Nic intake, is remarkably less. The need to increase Nic is therefore obvious but the question was by how much. Did not want to go to 12mg if that was going to knock me silly as it probably would.

 

[THE REAPER]

Good afternoon all i dont have any more juice but i do have flavors and a little bit of vg and pg i do struggle to diy cause of pepper taste on creams and that is almost all i have is in the line of creams and i am a non strawberry taster too it sucks but what can i do anyway i got a 30ml MTL juice from a friend but i only have an RDA at the moment cause i dont have coils for my tank that came with my smok morph so now i tried the MTL juice on my RDA and it hit me HARD lol so what can i do to be able to use it on my RDA i have vg and pg but i wanna keep the flavor cause the 30ml is all i have any help will be appreciated thanks in advance.

 

[Ugi]

What mg is the mtl juice..
What flavor is it
U can dilute it with pg&vg to use in dripper

 

[THE REAPER]

O yes and my ohms on my RDA is 0.132 and for now thats all i have thanks.

 

[THE REAPER]

What mg is the mtl juice..
What flavor is it
U can dilute it with pg&vg to use in dripper

12mg Liquid Fusions strawberry cheesecake pg50% vg50% thank you.