If we tax vaping, we’ll just keep smokers smoking

[Vaping Saved My Life]

To impose such a tax now is tantamount to depriving South African smokers and vapers of an opportunity to collectively define the place of ENDS, with the government, in the fight to reduce smoking. Government must be sensible; tobacco harm reduction is a sensible strategy to reduce harm to smokers. Quit or die approaches do not have a place in a democracy such as ours.

https://mg.co.za/opinion/2022-02-03-if-we-tax-vaping-well-just-keep-smokers-smoking/

 

[vicTor]

agree !

 

[Spunk3yMunk3y]

I honestly think they are reaching for pockets here and not at all interested in the youth as they say. I live next door to a highschool, I've never seen one of them vaping, but I have seen a bunch of them smoking. Starter kit for a vape? R350-R1k... Starter pack for smoking? R2.50 for a loose draw from the lady on the corner and I guarantee you she doesn't ID. In SA I think it's also more difficult to hide you bottle of juice and vape from your parents than just buying a loose draw and smoking it on the spot... Evidence "disposed" of (besides getting in the car honking of smoke)

 

[AstroT]

very well written opinion piece

 

[Rivera]

The tax will come. As much as it disgusts you and me, I don't see anything stopping it.

 

[Spunk3yMunk3y]

The tax will come. As much as it disgusts you and me, I don't see anything stopping it.

I just dread the all feared "flavour ban"

 

[Rivera]

I just dread the all feared "flavour ban"

Don't say it! That would be far worse

 

[Timwis]

Do you pay no tax on vaping products at all?

 

[Puff the Magic Dragon]

Do you pay no tax on vaping products at all?

We pay 15% VAT on everything including imports.

The vendors will pay tax on their profits and their employees will pay income tax.

 

[Timwis]

We pay 15% VAT on everything including imports.

The vendors will pay tax on their profits and their employees will pay income tax.

So this is about a higher rate like they put on Booze and cigarettes, now I get it! From the OP to someone who doesn't know the tax situation it comes across as no tax was paid but it's the same as UK. They are looking at the wrong thing to raise tax on, vaping products should be left with standard tax but the problem from what I can tell is tax on cigarettes is far too low in SA!

 

[Puff the Magic Dragon]

from what I can tell is the tax on cigarettes is far too low in SA!

The real problem is that illegal cigarettes are freely available. Every cigarette I smoked over a 35 year period I paid tax on.

If the taxes on cigarettes were increased radically everyone would smoke illegally.

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

The real problem is that illegal cigarettes are freely available. Every cigarette I smoked over a 35 year period I paid tax on.

If the taxes on cigarettes were increased radically everyone would smoke illegally.

In support of your statement ... https://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/27/1/65, and mark my words ...
We'll experience the same application of taxes, (controls as our government like to call them), and the same "bypass mechanisms" / outcomes in the SA vape industry in coming months!

 

[Timwis]

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/prices_by_country.jsp?itemId=17

Pack of 20 Marlboro UK $15.57
Pack of 20 Marlboro SA $3.10

No incentive to stop smoking on economic grounds, tax is far too low!

 

[Rivera]

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/prices_by_country.jsp?itemId=17

Pack of 20 Marlboro UK $15.57
Pack of 20 Marlboro SA $3.10

No incentive to stop smoking on economic grounds, tax is far too low!

Marlboro is super expensive here.

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/prices_by_country.jsp?itemId=17

Pack of 20 Marlboro UK $15.57
Pack of 20 Marlboro SA $3.10

No incentive to stop smoking on economic grounds, tax is far too low!

$15 for a pack of smokes is literally unaffordable here. I’d buy smokes illegally, and so would everyone else.

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

Marlboro is super expensive here.

$15 for a pack of smokes is literally unaffordable here. I’d buy smokes illegally.

Look at what happened to illicit cigarette sales during the lockdown cigarette ban ... Smokers will smoke irrespective of any rulings ... they'll sell a kidney if required, (as will Vapers vape!)

 

[Timwis]

Marlboro is super expensive here

So is that website wrong that has Marlboro at $3.10?

 

[Rivera]

So is that website wrong that has Marlboro at $3.10?

Where I am a pack of Marlboro is $2.01 converted, and that is not cheap here. Most are okay to pay $1.53 (Pall Mall)

 

[Rivera]

Look at what happened to illicit cigarette sales during the lockdown cigarette ban ... Smokers will smoke irrespective of any rulings ... they'll sell a kidney if required, (as will Vapers vape!)

How I feel about my vaping It WILL continue!

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

How I feel about my vaping It WILL continue!

Exactly my point! ...

SOLD! ... One kidney

 

[Timwis]

Where I am a pack of Marlboro is $2.01 converted, and that is not cheap here. Most are okay to pay $1.53 (Pall Mall)

Exactly my point, what incentive is there to stop smoking when you can buy cigarettes that cheap. Vaping is very popular in the UK because as well as on health grounds many switch because of the money they save!

 

[Puff the Magic Dragon]

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/prices_by_country.jsp?itemId=17

Pack of 20 Marlboro UK $15.57
Pack of 20 Marlboro SA $3.10

No incentive to stop smoking on economic grounds, tax is far too low!

Theoretically, this would appear to be correct but you must take the following into consideration :

The majority of smokers in SA are smoking non-taxed cigarettes.
If SA tax rates were increased to UK levels everyone would smoke illegal cigarettes.
SA is a tobacco-producing country and Zimbabwe is a huge exporter of tobacco. There is no shortage of tobacco for those wanting to make and sell illegal untaxed cigarettes.
The high taxes in the UK still haven't stopped smoking. Around 25% of people in routine and manual occupations smoke compared with just 10% of people in managerial and professional occupations. In other words those with the least disposable income smoke more.

This is a hugely complex issue. If we could solve the problem....hello Nobel Prize

 

[Rivera]

Exactly my point, what incentive is there to stop smoking when you can buy cigarettes that cheap. Vaping is very popular in the UK because as well as on health grounds many switch because of the money they save!

We’re in a country with a very high poverty rate, which is why tax is what it is on cigarettes and even with it being where it is, the majority of the population buy illegal smokes. There really isn’t a point for the government to push vaping here due to the population.

 

[Timwis]

We’re in a country with a very high poverty rate, which is why tax is what it is on cigarettes and even with it being where it is, the majority of the population buy illegal smokes. There really isn’t a point for the government to push vaping here due to the population.

I'm just so glad the UK Government is so pro vaping, no chance of flavour bans here!

 

[Timwis]

Anyway I'm off to the supermarket to get some food plus some heavily taxed Hobgoblin and even higher taxed Red Wine!

 

[Rivera]

I'm just so glad the UK Government is so pro vaping, no chance of flavour bans here!

To be honest I don’t see a flavour ban ever coming here, but tax on vape is going to happen for sure. Just waiting to see how that plays out and how we deal with it.