As I see it ...

[Intuthu Kagesi]

Nicotine is an alkaloid found in tobacco leaves, and is readily soluble in Alcohol or Ether, and is usually extracted thus, however it is not optimally absorbed by the body on its own. This is because pure nicotine is made up of negatively charged particles which cannot move across organic membranes, however; By adding Ammonia to the extracted Nicotine, we allow Nicotine to cross organic membranes, ie. we increase its bioavailability by 'freeing the base', hence the name Freebase Nicotine.

Then to Nicotine Salts; Around 2015, Juul Labs discovered that Nicotine found in tobacco leaves, could also be extracted in a far more efficient manner ... by adding Benzoic, Lactic, or Levulinic acid, and subsequently patented the process. In Chemistry, acids are considered salts, hence the name Nicotine Salts. The process is not only far more efficient, the levels extracted are also far greater in salts, begging the question of why it is more expensive than Freebase?

Notwithstanding that it is by far also the most efficient way of delivering nicotine to the body by virtue of it's pH. It also 'tastes' smoother and is absorbed into the bloodstream at a much quicker pace than Freebase Nicotine. In other words; It has a much greater bioavailability than Freebase Nicotine ... Now hold that thought ... Nicotine Salts have a GREATER bioavailability, and a GREATER % of Nicotine extracted from the same source volumetrically ... AND ... at a much lower cost ... hmmmm

I could wax on ad lib here, however the points I wish to harp on are covered above, and ... Nicotine is Nicotine as drugs go, and the nonsence about comparing 50mg Salts to 12mg Freebase is just that - Nonsence! ... In actual fact with the bioavailability greater in Nicotine Salts, should you vape 12mg Salts next to 12mg Freebase, you would have higher blood nicotine levels from the Salts, than the Freebase. The Freebase would however have a harsher "throat hit" by virtue of it being a alkaloid or base, however, just because you CAN now accept more nicotine by virtue of the ease of consumption, doesn't mean you should!

Now to Vape Stores that are punting 50mg disposables, and taking advantage of the relative tastelessness of Nic Salts, and hiding behind a deluge of flavours ... and creating hardcore nicotine addicts in the process, chasing $ ... This is NOT what the Vape Industry was formed for!
No wonder 'the powers that be' are after Vapers! ... I blame the Vape Merchants for touting 50mg Nicotine Salts disposables in Child friendly flavours ... yes to children too ... The industry is deceitfully creating addicts ... Lose the Nicotine Salts ... mind you ... Lose Disposables too!

 

[Paul33]

My Mrs has one the 50mg Vapengin russian tobacco disposable jobs and I took a little puff on it the other day and I thought i was going to die!

Now, granted I only vape 2mg but I have been vaping for a long time and prior to that I smoked 40 Camel filters a day so I'm a tough bugger ( ) but that one puff on the 50mg knocked me on my bald head!

Its no joke!

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

My Mrs has one the 50mg Vapengin russian tobacco disposable jobs and I took a little puff on it the other day and I thought i was going to die!

Now, granted I only vape 2mg but I have been vaping for a long time and prior to that I smoked 40 Camel filters a day so I'm a tough bugger ( ) but that one puff on the 50mg knocked me on my bald head!

Its no joke!

I'm with you there Paul ... I too was a 40 to 60 Camel Classic smoker, and 2 to 3ml of 12mg juice in an MTL device more than calmed my nicotine cravings. A single puff of 50mg salts enough to warrant me experiencing what has affectionately been termed a Silver on the forum, so much so, that I'd have to sit down for a few minutes to "calm the farm".

 

[Silver]

I hear you @Intuthu Kagesi

I too worry about the 50mg nic salts.
False sense of smoothness. Getting people used to 50mg is not a good thing, in my opinion.
Maybe justified to get them off smoking combustibles. Then for them to drop the nic content. That might be ok.

But to get people off smoking, they usually need a bit of throat hit. So I think the smoothness of nic salts is not the way to go anyway.

Im not a fan of nic salts myself because I prefer the stronger throat hit of free base.
When I did try nic salts, I got the nic buzz quickly and light headedness, without any throat hit.
Not good for me.

I hope the industry can steer itself back to more freebase...
Or have a downard sloping glidepath in nic salt strengths at least. I.e. 50mg, 40mg, 30mg, 20mg, 10mg etc.

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

I hear you @Intuthu Kagesi

I too worry about the 50mg nic salts.
False sense of smoothness. Getting people used to 50mg is not a good thing, in my opinion.
Maybe justified to get them off smoking combustibles. Then for them to drop the nic content. That might be ok.

But to get people off smoking, they usually need a bit of throat hit. So I think the smoothness of nic salts is not the way to go anyway.

Im not a fan of nic salts myself because I prefer the stronger throat hit of free base.
When I did try nic salts, I got the nic buzz quickly and light headedness, without any throat hit.
Not good for me.

I hope the industry can steer itself back to more freebase...
Or have a downard sloping glidepath in nic salt strengths at least. I.e. 50mg, 40mg, 30mg, 20mg, 10mg etc.

I agree to the better part with what you're saying bar the Nicotine salt levels ... 50mg Nic salts is friggen HECTIC, especially so in that it is to the better part tasteless, (spelt "throat-hit-less"), meaning it can be hidden in a vape, unlike freebase. But the real issue is that it's reuptake, or bioavailability, is some 5 times greater than that of freebase. Translated into english ... The same concentration of Nic Salts compared to Freebase Nicotine results in almost FIVE TIMES greater Blood nicotine levels, and therein lies my first concern.

If you look at this graph below, (bandied around freely on the internet, however with some key data missing that I'll get to), it's illustrated rather well;

I think most people have seen iterations of this chart before, however the key elements always missing are;
The test indices are 2mg/ml, (for both Freebase AND Nicotine Salts), and the cigarettes used in the initial study were Pall Mall with a claimed 0.9mg Nicotine and 12mg Tar.
The tests conducted were before and post SINGLE inhalation at 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 15 and 30 minutes.

With the missing data now supplied, we see that the reuptake is 5 times greater with Nicotine Salts, with the same nicotine strength between Salts and Freebase ... so why then would you ever need 25 times more, aka 50mg salts.

It now also makes sense that someone moving from cigarettes to vaping would require, (dependant on their brands respective strength), somewhere between 12 and 18mg of Freebase, or between 2 and 4mg of Nicotine Salts, (assuming an MTL device) ... Freebase being the preference because of it's similarity to a cigarettes throat hit, albeit that the blood nicotine levels with freebase lag both salts and cigarettes by up to 5 minutes.

 

[Stranger]

A few years ago I read about humans actually needing nicotine for body's to function properly. This guy also mentioned that from one person to another the demand differed. Got me thinking. I was a 30 a day man and when I switched I was using 36 mg freebase. Big throat hit on MTL from a tiny draw. Now I am the opposite and on 3mg DL

So what changed ? I did MTL like that for years before I got into the DL side. Maybe we have evolved, maybe this bloke was onto something when he said our personal needs will balance out either via our diet and our smoking habits. So no, I can't agree totally with dumping high % nic salts. I do agree with banning or fining vapes that are purposely made to attract youngsters.

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

A few years ago I read about humans actually needing nicotine for body's to function properly. This guy also mentioned that from one person to another the demand differed. Got me thinking. I was a 30 a day man and when I switched I was using 36 mg freebase. Big throat hit on MTL from a tiny draw. Now I am the opposite and on 3mg DL

So what changed ? I did MTL like that for years before I got into the DL side. Maybe we have evolved, maybe this bloke was onto something when he said our personal needs will balance out either via our diet and our smoking habits. So no, I can't agree totally with dumping high % nic salts. I do agree with banning or fining vapes that are purposely made to attract youngsters.

We certainly don't need nicotine, however our bodies quickly acclimatise to it, as research proves that it creates a temporary feeling of well-being and relaxation, whilst increasing your heart rate and the amount of oxygen the heart uses. As nicotine enters the body, it causes a surge of endorphins, the neurohormones that relieve stress and pain whilst elevating our mood, hence the addiction. As to your consumption dropping, I would think that your need, (perceived or real), dropped over the period, lessening your need for endorphins?

 

[Rob Fisher]

100% agree with you @Intuthu Kagesi! Having just returned from VapeCon 2023 and being inundated by vendors wanting me to test their 5% disposables! While there may be a place for a 5% disposable to get a heavy smoker off stinkies they are just another device to keep people addicted to nicotine! I spoke to tons of vendors and berated them for not having 1% or 2% disposables available... and their answer was all the same. The people only want to buy the 5% disposables.

Luckily 5% disposables are banned in a few countries so I was able to get a few that I can actually vape before keeling over!

Vape Republic and Bewolk had 1% and 2% with great flavours.

 

[Stranger]

So in essence Rob, is it your opinion that the manufacturers are pulling a Juul on us

 

[Rob Fisher]

So in essence Rob, is it your opinion that the manufacturers are pulling a Juul on us

Yes indeed!