I agree, not only the cloners state the same materials as the originals and if they were lying the proof would be out there (metals can easily be tested) instead of just assumption. Everyone will have there own experiences but i have the clone Taifun GTR by Shenray and like someone else in the thread my mate has the original (£16 Vs £139) and we after trying each others versions have agreed if they got mixed up we would have no way of knowing which was which by either look, feel or performance.
Good idea, i will get him to do that!
The part people miss about this issue is the theft of intellectual property. I really feel for the modders who spend months and years designing a product only to be ripped off by the Cloners! Is that really fair?
© ® ™
You honestly think those 3 symbols mean anything in China?
Well what will the vape scene be like if we remove China from it? Complain with white bread under the arm?
As for intellectual property, I would like to see who made the first rda/rta as we know them and how much did all the HE manufacturers pay in royalties to that person for their copies of the 510, the posts, build decks, airflows etc?
I hear you @Jean claude Vaaldamme and I can understand using ideas of other manufacturers especially if their product and idea is not patented. Eg airflow ideas etc. Might not be morally right according to some but it is what it is. If each manufacturer tries to improve a bit on each area all the time then in the end the customer gets a better product.
However, taking a product like a Svoemesto Kayfun (for example) and copying it identically 1:1 with the LOGO and NAME on the product and packaging is not cool in my view. The Kayfun might not have copyright protection but I would imagine the name and Svoemesto logo are registered trademarks. So using them to sell your product seems unfair to me.
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I do understand, however cloning and copying of stuff is part of china and its not just the clone manufacturers, I almost want to say its part of their culture, the country does not stand up to it or condone it. So where does that leave the vape scene? I mean these Chinese vendors are at Vapecon? Why dont "we" stand against them and their country for all the cloning if we feel so strong about it? Even Sato vapes that probably sell the most 1:1 clones in SA was at Vapecon and yes I bought a 1:1 clone from them at Vapecon. So where was the outcry then?
As for the airflow etc. Im speaking more about the basic design. Lets take the 510 pin. Almost all attys look the same, same pin same insulation etc. Why do HE manufacturers dont come up with their own? Why do they copy it. If the first guy that made that design patented it, would the HE guys even exsist?
I hear you @Jean claude Vaaldamme
However, allow me to just correct and comment on a few things:
Regarding Chinese vendors at VapeCon, there were 3 Chinese exhibitors that made the trip from China to be with us - Vaporesso, SMOK and Sigelei. None of them are clone manufacturers (ie making 1:1 clones of other products with brands and all). These companies have large R&D departments and to my best knowledge, they design and manufacture original products, many of which are very popular in SA.
There were no "clone manufacturers" from China exhibiting at VapeCon.
With regard to Sato Vape, that is a real pity that they were selling 1:1 clones. I personally had a long and detailed discussion with the owner of Sato Vape prior to their application and explained our view on clones. He appreciated the chat and saw our point of view - and respected it. He agreed to exhibit at VapeCon but not bring clones. It saddens me to hear they brought them. Thanks for the headsup. It is noted. We were not able to check every stand and product on offer.
Just know that we tried very hard on this initiative so when you say why dont "we" stand against them and their country(China) - our view is certainly not to distance ourselves from the whole of China if there are many great original manufacturers with products that are popular here. I assume you visited the Vaporesso stand and saw the effort they put in to their VapeCon presence? It was spectacular. That just shows how seriously they consider this market and we are honoured and privileged to host such a fine vaping vendor at the event.
With regard to your comment about the 510 pin and re-using it - I see your point and it does make for an interesting discussion. However my personal view is that using a common connector piece means any atty can fit on any mod. Open system. I suppose its like a USB connector in computers. I am not 100% sure of this but i dont think there is an original creator of the USB interface that all other manufacturers have to pay royalties to. And it helps for interoperability - so the customer wins at the end of the day.
In any industry if products are not patented they are open to be copied, i would have issue with patented products being cloned and clones being sold as authentic.
The issue seems to be everybody moving the goalposts on what's acceptable and what's not to suit their own behaviour surely ripping off is ripping off!
Was it clarified that it was Voopoo that stole the RPM idea for the Vinci from Smok before Smok were invited and if so would Voopoo have been welcomed? i bet they would.
would Vandyvape have been welcomed? after all they blatantly stole the Profile Ceramic seat. Again i bet they would. These manufacturers may have large R&D departments but it seems most of their work is making sure they have copied things correctly!
The issue seems to be everybody moving the goalposts on what's acceptable and what's not to suit their own behaviour surely ripping off is ripping off!
Was it clarified that it was Voopoo that stole the RPM idea for the Vinci from Smok before Smok were invited and if so would Voopoo have been welcomed? i bet they would.
would Vandyvape have been welcomed? after all they blatantly stole the Profile Ceramic seat. Again i bet they would. These manufacturers may have large R&D departments but it seems most of their work is making sure they have copied things correctly!
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I think clones would represent a real problem to the industry if the HE gear was sitting on the shelves while customers are rushing to buy clones. Which is far from being the case. We all know all the hassle you have to go through in order to put your hands on one of these, from closed/secret FB pages to exclusive lists etc. Are clones eating of their market shares? I highly doubt it! Would they be able/willing to increase their production and hence their sales? I also doubt it as they are what they are because of the scarcity effect and not necessarily because of the quality of their products (I’m not generalizing).
The more mainstream vape companies are ripping off each other’s ideas and I see no one pointing fingers at them.
I don’t think that anyone has to justify what he buys with his hard earned money. Should they inhale funny stuff while vaping on a clone is their own responsibility. Do we inhale some funny stuff on genuine products? Who is testing devices? Who is certifying the quality of used materials and the safety of those products? No one! Do I trust the CE symbol on all vape products? Absolutely not. China has its own set of standards (probably none). The truth is that the market ends up deciding who will survive and who will go bankrupt and there’s nothing more subjective than the market!
The more mainstream vape companies are ripping off each other’s ideas and I see no one pointing fingers at them.
I don’t think that anyone has to justify what he buys with his hard earned money. Should they inhale funny stuff while vaping on a clone is their own responsibility. Do we inhale some funny stuff on genuine products? Who is testing devices? Who is certifying the quality of used materials and the safety of those products? No one! Do I trust the CE symbol on all vape products? Absolutely not. China has its own set of standards (probably none). The truth is that the market ends up deciding who will survive and who will go bankrupt and there’s nothing more subjective than the market!
Sorry i did not reply sooner as i dont follow your Posts in general.Just saw in a group you being blasted. About having negative feedback on most things people post here. Its okay to have you own opinion but to be "optimistic" about most of it makes you a person that not alot of the vapers here might like.
And yes that includes me.
If you buy a cloned car its not going to make me hate you more than if you buy an authentic. It is just going to show me that you can not afford the original and really like the autentic. But that does not mean the maker of the clone car did not infringe on inteletcual property. Regardless if its patented or not. It is stealing someone's idea. I recon you will not feel to happy if some chines company clones your wife to sell as a sex doll. Cause then all clients will crave your wive or girlfriend. While you have the original.
This might be deleted.
But this is how i feel about clones.
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I hope that is "brannas" Joda is drinking.
Baby Yoda! He's only 50 years old. Way too young for brannas.I hope that is "brannas" Joda is drinking.
Guys let’s not fight about this
When the clone issue comes up the discussion often gets heated
Let’s remember not to get personal and play the ball not the man
It is a fascinating topic and we all have our views on it, which we need to listen to and respect - we can discuss this without getting heated with each other.
In any event, the thread was created by Timwis to discuss which clones are better than others, so we are veering off that topic...
Let’s get it back on track
When the clone issue comes up the discussion often gets heated
Let’s remember not to get personal and play the ball not the man
It is a fascinating topic and we all have our views on it, which we need to listen to and respect - we can discuss this without getting heated with each other.
In any event, the thread was created by Timwis to discuss which clones are better than others, so we are veering off that topic...
Let’s get it back on track
Are you for real?
Still have a clear memory of buying a "Narda" clone from you. Curious.
Brings a whole new meaning to abusing one's self!!!!If someone made a sex doll out of me, I'd be flattered!
Heck I'd even purchase one and have my way with myself!
Sorry I took so long to respond, but seeing that you decided to attack me personally I left it to see if admin deleted your post. But seeing that they left it, Im sure they will give me the same courtesy and not delete mine Except if they buddy buddy with you and there is different rules for different forumites
QUOTE="antonherbst, post: 822249, member: 8473"]
Sorry i did not reply sooner as i dont follow your Posts in general.
What you wanted to say is: Sorry I first needed support from my fake internet friends to gain courage and it them took me a week to come up with a lame reply.
Just saw in a group you being blasted.
Lol blasted? One cannot get blasted on a closed group of friends if the "blasted" is not there to participate. When the "blasted" is there to state the other side of the story you and your fake internet friends will run tail between the legs like what happened before and you will ask admins to delete(like before)
About having negative feedback on most things people post here. Its okay to have you own opinion but to be "optimistic" about most of it makes you a person that not alot of the vapers here might like.
And yes that includes me.
Oooh thats a real loss, Im going to cry for a week. I so wanted to be popular on the internet so I could show my fake internet friends that I got 2.37 gazillions likes.
Like you say, Im entitled to my opinions. I do however give them inside the rules and dont attack people personally. But your lack of IQ obviously shows and you had to revert to kindergarden warfare and throw sticks and stones. But hey, Im sure your fake internet friends on your whatsapp group think you won the argument, well done
If you buy a cloned car its not going to make me hate you more than if you buy an authentic. It is just going to show me that you can not afford the original and really like the autentic. But that does not mean the maker of the clone car did not infringe on inteletcual property. Regardless if its patented or not. It is stealing someone's idea. I recon you will not feel to happy if some chines company clones your wife to sell as a sex doll. Cause then all clients will crave your wive or girlfriend. While you have the original.
Nothing with any real substance to respond to. Howerver you keep going to the cant afford HE gear. Now surely anyone who read the classifieds will know that there is plenty HE gear selling for less than 2k, that includes fancy stabwood mods and even your preffered Limelight glooms. So genius can you lease explain to us how a normal vaper that buy a normal mod like a Vaporesso Gen, a Topside dual, etc etc cannot afford HE gear? Its in the same ballpark? Your average guy that pays 8k for a tv or 10k for a pc, surely can afford to buy HE gear if he/she thought it worth it?
This might be deleted.
Yes lets see the "ethics"
But this is how i feel about clones.[/QUOTE]
Except if they buddy buddy with you and there is different rules for different forumitesQUOTE="antonherbst, post: 822249, member: 8473"]
Sorry i did not reply sooner as i dont follow your Posts in general.
What you wanted to say is: Sorry I first needed support from my fake internet friends to gain courage and it them took me a week to come up with a lame reply.
Just saw in a group you being blasted.
Lol blasted? One cannot get blasted on a closed group of friends if the "blasted" is not there to participate. When the "blasted" is there to state the other side of the story you and your fake internet friends will run tail between the legs like what happened before and you will ask admins to delete(like before)
About having negative feedback on most things people post here. Its okay to have you own opinion but to be "optimistic" about most of it makes you a person that not alot of the vapers here might like.
And yes that includes me.
Oooh thats a real loss, Im going to cry for a week. I so wanted to be popular on the internet so I could show my fake internet friends that I got 2.37 gazillions likes.
Like you say, Im entitled to my opinions. I do however give them inside the rules and dont attack people personally. But your lack of IQ obviously shows and you had to revert to kindergarden warfare and throw sticks and stones. But hey, Im sure your fake internet friends on your whatsapp group think you won the argument, well done
If you buy a cloned car its not going to make me hate you more than if you buy an authentic. It is just going to show me that you can not afford the original and really like the autentic. But that does not mean the maker of the clone car did not infringe on inteletcual property. Regardless if its patented or not. It is stealing someone's idea. I recon you will not feel to happy if some chines company clones your wife to sell as a sex doll. Cause then all clients will crave your wive or girlfriend. While you have the original.
Nothing with any real substance to respond to. Howerver you keep going to the cant afford HE gear. Now surely anyone who read the classifieds will know that there is plenty HE gear selling for less than 2k, that includes fancy stabwood mods and even your preffered Limelight glooms. So genius can you lease explain to us how a normal vaper that buy a normal mod like a Vaporesso Gen, a Topside dual, etc etc cannot afford HE gear? Its in the same ballpark? Your average guy that pays 8k for a tv or 10k for a pc, surely can afford to buy HE gear if he/she thought it worth it?
This might be deleted.
Yes lets see the "ethics"
But this is how i feel about clones.[/QUOTE]
What’s been said has been said
So please let’s move on now
If there are more posts of personal nature and more fighting then we will have to lock the thread.
So please let’s move on now
If there are more posts of personal nature and more fighting then we will have to lock the thread.
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