Counterfeit Awareness

[DougP]

Buying counterfeit juices might be cheaper but PLEASE consider the hidden DANGERS:
No certificates for the compounds making up that juice
No quality control (what the H*** are you getting?)
Some counterfeit e-liquids have been found to contain dangerously high levels of nicotine and/or other harmful particles.
“We’ve found in the order of 25 or 26 different elements, including metals, in the e-cigarette aerosols,” said Dr. Prue Talbot, a professor of cell biology at the University of California, Riverside, who co-authored several of these studies. “Some of the metal particles are less than 100 nanometers in diameter, and those are a concern because they can penetrate deep into the lungs.”
Good companies have a reputation to uphold! Only buy from a REPUTABLE retailer.
https://info-electronic-cigarette.com/beware-of-e-cigarette-counterfeits/

#BlendsofDistinction #VapingCommunity #Don'tBuyFakes #NoToCounterfeits

 

[RichJB]

Very interesting info, thanks @Blends Of Distinction. It would be interesting to subject these counterfeits to lab analysis to find out exactly what they are using in them. I would imagine that many of the contaminants would come from using the cheapiest nastiest food flavourings they can find instead of good quality vape flavourings. I can't imagine they're using substitutes for VG and PG as these are so cheap, although I would guess that they are buying the cheapest VG and PG they can source.

I'm surprised that the samples have such high levels of nic. As nic is quite a major cost in juice, I would think they'd be using less of it, not more. It would also make sense that if their juices are low in nic, consumers won't get a good nic intake and will vape more of the juice to try and compensate, thus using up the bottle faster and needing to buy more. Perhaps they are using the cheapest nastiest nic they can find and that this has uneven consistency batch to batch, that they are adding high nic levels without even realising it or measuring it?

 

[DougP]

@RichJB
Just for info you can buy industrial grade PG and VG at a vastly reduced cost to pharmaceutical grade. I once made up a mix using industrial PG to test and it was really an eye opener, you could feel the side effects, lungs restricted and they started burning almost like harsh nic and I got a really bad headache about 30 mins later
If I were to guess that's one area where guys doing counterfeit juices would start cutting corners cost wise
Also know of a certain fly by night juice maker selling Ejuice that he was mixing with Robertson's food flavorings


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[RichJB]

Good info on the non-pharma grade VG and PG, thanks.

 

[DougP]

No prob
non-pharma grade PG gives a harsh (like harsh nic) hit more in the lungs than throat.
It's a good tell sign


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[DanielSLP]

Just want to understand what is meant by " No certificates for the compounds making up that juice ".

where can I get these certificates with you guys or with other local vendors?

 

[DanielSLP]

“We’ve found in the order of 25 or 26 different elements, including metals, in the e-cigarette aerosols,” said Dr. Prue Talbot, a professor of cell biology at the University of California, Riverside, who co-authored several of these studies. “Some of the metal particles are less than 100 nanometers in diameter, and those are a concern because they can penetrate deep into the lungs.”

Didn't @Mauritz recently find metals in locally manufactured eliquid?

 

[Mauritz]

“We’ve found in the order of 25 or 26 different elements, including metals, in the e-cigarette aerosols,” said Dr. Prue Talbot, a professor of cell biology at the University of California, Riverside, who co-authored several of these studies. “Some of the metal particles are less than 100 nanometers in diameter, and those are a concern because they can penetrate deep into the lungs.”

Didn't @Mauritz recently find metals in locally manufactured eliquid?

I cant get to the article source and data as it seems to be behind a paywall.

We did do an assay on this and I would like to clarify again that we did not set out to test local product quality and made no other measurements other than for these metals for the purpose of identifying the scale of the issues we experienced. We have since expanded our testing and we are finding contaminants in flavours direct from manufacturer as well.

Our assumption at this point is that some of the contaminants are introduced post manufacture in the storage or shipping drums as the reference samples we have collected to not show the same results. This may occur especially in PG as it is usually shipped in 215kg metal drums with a chemical safe coating on the inside. We suspect that the coating may be failing and the contaminants introduced that way . This would also explain similar reading we are getting from some batches of the flavourants as they contain PG and may be suffering the same issue.

In addition, the contaminants are not fully soluble so we are getting various readings from the same drum . We are currently testing a sample at every 50l deep into a drum to confirm our hypothesis. If we are correct we should find a greater concentration toward the bottom of a barrel. Another note is that we are not finding this in all drums. This adds to our theory that it may be failure of the coating.

Unfortunately all this is merely speculation and we do not know if there is a reason to be alarmed. Almost all of the data we have on safety of these chemicals is based on oral consumption and not inhalation. The levels of metals that we found would be harmless if used in food and cosmetics manufacturing. All we know is that in some cases we are detecting levels of lead, dioxane and Iron that are above recommended tolerances.

I believe that the SA manufacturers are choosing the best ingredients from reputable suppliers that supply the required COA's. I believe what we are seeing is a problem introduced by logistics and the issue may be unique to our industry as we are less tolerant of these chemicals than food and cosmetics. The important thing is that in my experience the local manufacturers care about this and we are speaking to significant number of local manufacturers to better understand the problem and develop ways to manage it.

Our approach is to align to ISO 9001 . This means that we will be testing of every batch of our bases to screen for contaminants and discard samples that show contamination.

Regards

 

[DanielSLP]

I think you misunderstood me slightly. I was trying to say that the metals found may actually be a bigger issue and not just present in counterfeit eliquid.

I wasn't saying counterfeit eliquid is good for you or anything like that. I jist think local manufacturor should be aware that they too don't give certificates on the compounds or the fact that there is metals found in local juices from reputable vendors.

There is a lot of flaws in the whole counterfeit eliquid arguement and I'm starting to wonder how much truth is in them or the same studies associated with them.

 

[Mauritz]

My sincerest apologies if I conveyed anything other than agreement. We caused a bit of a stir when we first published the information and I am just trying to correct the interpretation of our information.

 

[Neill Powell]

THIS is the type of discussion i like seeing! At the end of it all, with all our mods and tanks, wicks and coils, the end-product is to make sure we are getting the best (and safest) possible method of doing the vaping thing right.. the LAB is a best-case start. getting to know (on our own terms) what is eventually going to be in our lungs... is a BIG DEAL

Go to the china mall in Centurion... Mmm they're catching onto the vape-scene... 12000mah (yes, you read it correctly, go and check for yourselves, DO NOT BUY THEM FOR THE LOVE OF THE GODS), "MOD" batteries.. and some funky-monkey e-juices!