Lychberry: advice needed

[aktorsyl]

This is (to me, anyway), an amazing menthol vape. The lychee & strawberry mix idea wasn't mine, but it definitely works.

FA Lychee: 3%
TFA Straw.Ripe: 7%
TFA Sweetener: 1%
TFA Menthol: 0.5%

On the inhale it's fine, but on the exhale it locks up and tickles your throat quite badly and triggers a cough (I don't think the menthol is to blame, 0.5% isnt much and menthol mostly hits on the inhale, not the exhale).

I tried adding TFA Smooth (1 drop per 5 ml) but it doesn't really make a difference.

Any other ideas to smooth the exhale a bit?

EDIT: This recipe has been refined & finalised, and can be found here: https://www.ecigssa.co.za/lychberry-advice-needed.t38288/#post-551256

 

[Petrus]

This is (to me, anyway), an amazing menthol vape. The lychee & strawberry mix idea wasn't mine, but it definitely works.

FA Lychee: 3%
TFA Straw.Ripe: 7%
TFA Sweetener: 1%
TFA Menthol: 0.5%

On the inhale it's fine, but on the exhale it locks up and tickles your throat quite badly and triggers a cough (I don't think the menthol is to blame, 0.5% isnt much and menthol mostly hits on the inhale, not the exhale).

I tried adding TFA Smooth (1 drop per 5 ml) but it doesn't really make a difference.

Any other ideas to smooth the exhale a bit?

Try to add 0.5 Kalooda

 

[Strontium]

Steeping smooths most mixes but tbh I don't find it does much on fruits.

 

[aktorsyl]

Try to add 0.5 Kalooda

In addition to the menthol, won't that make it harsher?

 

[RichJB]

My guess is that it's the FA Lychee. ConcreteRiver advises to stay south of 1% in a mix, 3% would probably get floral and harsh although it shouldn't trigger a cough necessarily. If you have Cap Sweet Lychee, maybe sub with that at the same percentage?

 

[Silver]

Think it needs more menthol @aktorsyl

 

[aktorsyl]

My guess is that it's the FA Lychee. ConcreteRiver advises to stay south of 1% in a mix, 3% would probably get floral and harsh although it shouldn't trigger a cough necessarily. If you have Cap Sweet Lychee, maybe sub with that at the same percentage?

I don't, unfortunately. I can bring the lychee down to 1% and bring down the strawberry accordingly. Maybe strawberry down to 5%?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[RichJB]

I think that could work better. Not saying he's right necessarily, but ConcreteRiver's notes on FA Lychee concentration testing for reference:

So S&V concentration testing, this stuff gets really aggressive really quickly. Tart and thin at .25%. .5% has quite a bit more body already, and that floral is already pretty well front and center. 1% is getting sticky sweet and increasingly tart. This isn't much fun at 2%, with the rosehip flavor getting more towards normal floral roses. Sweetness is overbearing and the harshness is pretty noticeable. I'd start with this as an accent note at .25%, bumping up to .5% for use as a floral, tropical sweetener. I don't really think you're going to get a pleasant main note out of this, but I'm pretty routinely wrong. I'd stay south of 1% though.

and

Off-flavors: Yeah, that whole hairspray thing. I think it's the tart florals that are doing it. Still pretty prominent at lower pecentages, making this stuff fairly tricky to mix with

Throat Hit: Moderate. That chemical note doesn't do it any favors, and the more-than-solid sweetness and the tartness together are fairly harsh.

 

[aktorsyl]

Thanks! Makes me wonder if lychee shouldn't rather go down to 1% then, with strawberry at 5% and sweetener down to 0.5. Menthol staying at 0.5 and no smooth additive added.

EDIT: HIC seems to disagree with the chemical part but does seem to agree with the cloying sweetness on exhale, mostly:

Very sweet, aromatic, tropical fruit flavor. Smooth, almost creamy as it steeps. Lychee is
similar in flavor to dragonfruit and can make an interesting substitute or partner for it.
Try Lychee at 0.5% as a sweetener for fruits. Lychee sweetens late in an exhale, which
makes it an especially useful touch in recipes; few sweet flavors linger like FA Lychee.

 

[BumbleBee]

@aktorsyl I think the strawberry is what's giving you grief here, some folks find the TFA Srawb Ripe a little scratchy at higher percentages. Try dropping it down to around 3% and make up the difference with Capella Sweet Strawberry or similar to bring the strawberry part of the recipe back up. FA Lychee may be a touch on the cloying side above 3% but I personally like it like that, 5% is my happy place, I'm a Litchi's biggest fan

 

[aktorsyl]

Hm. How about this:

FA Lychee: 1%
TFA Straw.Ripe: 3%
CAP Sweet Straw: 2%
Sweetener: 0.25%
Menthol: 0.5%

That's an extremely low total-flavour percentage though.

 

[RevnLucky7]

This is (to me, anyway), an amazing menthol vape. The lychee & strawberry mix idea wasn't mine, but it definitely works.

FA Lychee: 3%
TFA Straw.Ripe: 7%
TFA Sweetener: 1%
TFA Menthol: 0.5%

On the inhale it's fine, but on the exhale it locks up and tickles your throat quite badly and triggers a cough (I don't think the menthol is to blame, 0.5% isnt much and menthol mostly hits on the inhale, not the exhale).

I tried adding TFA Smooth (1 drop per 5 ml) but it doesn't really make a difference.

Any other ideas to smooth the exhale a bit?

That lock up on the throat is most likely due to your sweetener. 1% is fairly on the high side, but not undoable. Remove the sweetener from the mix and see if you're still experiencing this.

Strawberry Ripe also needs to sit for a while. That stuff kills me fresh.

 

[aktorsyl]

UPDATE: I mixed it as follows just now:

TFA Straw.Ripe: 4%
CAP Sweet Straw: 2%
FA Lychee: 1%
TFA Menthol: 0.5%

Nic @ 3.5mg (I list this because it does affect the flavour in this recipe)

As a SnV, it doesn't have that much of a cough-inducing exhale anymore. The flavours are more muted now (obviously, with the lower percentages) but they're still "enough", I think. Will see how it goes over the next few days as it steeps in the bottle, but it's a pleasant vape. The flavours are very subtle (the lychee is kinda up front, but not overbearing.. while the strawberry is very very light in the background - if you didn't know there's strawberry in there, you probably wouldn't be able to put your finger on it, but that's how I prefer it).

If I had a BB, I'd put this in there as a menthol ADV, to be honest. For now it's in my Engine Nano, until someone gets stock of the SXK BB's again.

 

[aktorsyl]

Forgot to update this thread. After the attempts above, I still wasn't happy (while the last version posted above is still very good and could be ADV material, it just didn't have that zing yet). So I went back to the drawing board, and rebuilt and relayered the mix from scratch to address the issues separately. What I ended up with is a winner (for me, anyway) and has been in my rotation for the last few days. When I run out, I'll be mixing 100mls of it, that's how positive I feel about this particular recipe. It might not be for everyone (especially with the guava), but if it's up your alley - then by all means feel free to use it or adjust it to your liking.

Recipe below:

LYCHBERRY (FINAL):

FA Lychee: 1%
CAP Guava Sweet: 4%
CAP Strawberry Sweet: 2%
TFA Strawberry Ripe: 2%
INW Cactus: 0.5%
TFA Bavarian Cream: 2%
TFA Koolada: 0.4%
TFA Menthol: 0.5%

70vg / 30pg / 3mg

Composition:

The Lychee is in front at 1% but is not glaringly obvious, as it's joined by the Sweet Guava. Together they make up the main profile of this recipe and it's hard to tell which one is really the primary flavour (that's by design, I wanted them to have equal footing at the front of the mix). Right behind that follows the strawberry, which is a dual-layer of sweet & ripe strawberries. They are mostly hidden behind the lychee and guava and are just there to add a hint of flavour and sweetness to the mix, being very hard to identify by themselves. Again, this is a lychee/guava juice - the strawberries are just the supporting actors.

We then add a bit of juicyness with INW Cactus. At 0.5% it doesn't impart a prickly pear flavour, but rather adds the juicy and slightly smoothing effect of cactus, and helps to tone down harsh notes. This is compounded by Bavarian Cream at 2%, which serves three purposes: it tones down the harshness even further, it reduces the throat hit, and it adds a creamy overtone to the exhale without turning the whole thing into a cream-based juice.

Flavour profiles:

On the inhale, the lychee and guava are having a subtle battle for dominance, and both end up very close with lychee winning by a hair. On the exhale, the same effect happens but with the results reversed, and guava wins the race by a very slight margin here. In both phases, the strawberry is quiet in the background. The bavarian cream adds a very creamy note right at the end of the exhale to finish it off.

The menthol and koolada can be adjusted to taste; for me the ratio as in the recipe above works perfectly. The cooling effect starts the soothing burn right at the end of the inhale, the way I prefer it - but many people like it stronger.

I tested this as a SnV and it works fine. It really comes into its own after 2 days, though - the lychee and strawberry ripe smoothens out a bit more, and the bavarian cream develops nicely after the first 48 hours. It's not THAT much different than the SnV phase though, so if you're an impatient vaper - fear not. You can have at it.