More discussion on clones

My money, my life ... the end. When I have free cash I buy authentic else I have no issue buying a clone ... yes go ahead and publicly castrate me

If I choose a particular purchase no person should judge me

Tell me no one has downloaded a movie or game

I’m tired of this forum starting to judge and being all goodey tooshoes...

Few ago years ago everyone was openly showing clones in vape mail and now it’s like you have lepers disease
 
An no one tagged me, thanks guys

Let me first start of in saying i dont own any clones or HE so I’m not biased.


This whole clone wars thing is utter crap, everyone that is fighting against clones has no stakes in the matter.......”but why do you say this jm10” well simply because the clone hater act as if its their bread and butter were the modders themselves are the victims, not you.

Let the actually people and companies fight the cloners. You are a customer/friend and you are fighting a war that doesn’t directly involve you.

You dont see spar customers fighting checkers customers because spar has a problem with checkers.

People are acting as if this is some life or death scenario, please people this is vaping, it really is not that big a deal.

Vaping was a community were no judgement was passed weather you are low end or HE, we vaped to live a better live.

Yet now we get divisions in the community brought on by a fight that has nothing to do with us.

Some people seem to think that if they fight this war on behalf of a modder it makes a difference, well it doesn’t because in court case your opinion means nothing because your not involved in the business side.

So you guys can carry on this war and carry on dividing this once wonderful place and see where it gets us.

Leave our people on the forum alone, if they want clones i dont care cause at the end of the day if that keeps them of smoking then thats all that matters.

If only people were this passionate about our country(actual real problem that we are personally involved in) and how its run, we would be first world by one.



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incredible_hullk said:
My money, my life ... the end. When I have free cash I buy authentic else I have no issue buying a clone ... yes go ahead and publicly castrate me

If I choose a particular purchase no person should judge me

Tell me no one has downloaded a movie or game

I’m tired of this forum starting to judge and being all goodey tooshoes...

Few ago years ago everyone was openly showing clones in vape mail and now it’s like you have lepers disease
Click to expand...

No one can judge you brother, i got your back.

And people are hypocrites, some dont but clones but pirate‍


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jm10 said:
No one can judge you brother, i got your back.

And people are hypocrites, some dont but clones but pirate‍


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Click to expand...
half don’t even know what they consider “original” is a clone or generic.

if you look for instance at cell phones, how long was Huawei considered a no name brand? or clone? and i’m still proud to say i have never even once in my life touched a blackberry.
 
I have download mp3's , streamed the occasional movie, swore at times, have lied to my loved ones, drank Pick&Pay cola, jumped a robot, used a cell while driving, ......... but to name a few.
Bearing this in mind, do i have the right to make a choice for someone else?
My kids are taught that you can only preach once you have earned that moral platform.

Of course i don't prefer a clone above an authentic and of course i vape according to my budget and of course i realize the impact it has when people buy clones and of course i realize it is theft of intellectual property.

So what course of action do we take ........ first off we need to get emotions out of the way, secondly we need to educate and thirdly we need to hope for the best outcome. That is that, but a educated individual still has the right to decide for himself.

Do you think i am happy that Tom Cruise is a Scientologist or that a close friend is homophobic or soccer is the most successful sport in the world. The answer is NO. What is important is how you cope with that "NO".
Is it good to stand for something that is morally correct? OF COURSE
Is it good to become irrational about your moral stand? OF COURSE NOT

I am not pro-clone but pro-choice for those with the capacity to make rational decisions.

In the famous words of Charles Darwin ...... "I think". :) (which means that this is my opinion based on what i know and feel currently.)
 
Look if i could afford HE i would buy it. But i cant. Spending my money on my kids is more important than trying to show off.
Do i own a clone? Yes. Is it just the same as the HE version, no. But i still enjoy the setup.
One cannot steal an idea or product if its not patented. Also if you want to buy original meds instead of generic (which is not frowned upon and recommended by medical aid) then you have way too much money.
I have to echo @jm10. Can we just stop deviding this forum with the HE and none HE side. We are here to achieve the same goal
 
lesvaches said:
half don’t even know what they consider “original” is a clone or generic.

if you look for instance at cell phones, how long was Huawei considered a no name brand? or clone? and i’m still proud to say i have never even once in my life touched a blackberry.
Click to expand...

Yup everyone copies everyone. Slight twerks and designs is still the same concept so everyone is just a copycat of the first rda/rta/mod design


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Good to discuss this topic and get opinions from all angles

My interaction with clones started back in about 2014 - a few months after I started vaping. I got a Kayfun 3.1. Didn't know it was a clone because I didn't know these things were cloned or that clones were even a thing. My ignorance I guess. Anyway, that damn Kayfun took plenty hours of my time to try get right - but it always leaked. I tried so hard to get it right - and then retired it. I decided then that I would never buy a Kayfun again. I was highly peed off with this Kayfun brand! Over the years I learned that I had gotten a clone. And that the authentics were not easy to get. About a year or so ago, I got an authentic Kayfun V5 and V3 Mini from Throat Punch - and they worked beautifully!

The issue is that Kayfun clone experience I had put me off Kayfuns for a few years. The authentics are actually very good devices - but I didn't know. It was probably a poorly made clone that I got. I do understand that some clones are very good and sometimes work even better than the original. And at the price, a clone that works even 90% as good as the authentic is a good deal for a customer.

But for me, when a cloner copies a well-known device, logos and all - and uses the name and the brand that the OEM has spent a lot of time and money developing in order to just make a buck - then to me it's just wrong. I dont care about the legalities of it or whether the IP was patented. It's not cool to do that.

Why don't these companies rather try understand what makes the particular device good and where it can be improved - and then make some changes to it - and call it something else? I think the reason is that it takes effort and people would rather buy a Kayfun clone than a new unheard of device.

For a few years I now prefer to buy authentic where I can afford it. I can't justify buying some of the very highly priced gear - but I would rather buy something authentic that's in my price range.

Obviously everyone will have their own opinion on this - but this is just mine.
 
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What is a HE?

As for the topic I dont even know what is clones or not. But I know that most things from China are not the best quality, so if a china clone a china surely your argument against clones cant be quality>:)
 
Silver said:
Good to discuss this topic and get opinions from all angles

My interaction with clones started back in about 2014 - a few months after I started vaping. I got a Kayfun 3.1. Didn't know it was a clone because I didn't know these things were cloned or that clones were even a thing. My ignorance I guess. Anyway, that damn Kayfun took plenty hours of my time to try get right - but it always leaked. I tried so hard to get it right - and then retired it. I decided then that I would never buy a Kayfun again. I was highly peed off with this Kayfun brand! Over the years I learned that I had gotten a clone. And that the authentics were not easy to get. About a year or so ago, I got an authentic Kayfun V5 and V3 Mini from Throat Punch - and they worked beautifully!

The issue is that Kayfun clone experience I had put me off Kayfuns for a few years. The authentics are actually very good devices - but I didn't know. It was probably a poorly made clone that I got. I do understand that some clones are very good and sometimes work even better than the original. And at the price, a clone that works even 90% as good as the authentic is a good deal for a customer.

But for me, when a cloner copies a well-known device, logos and all - and uses the name and the brand that the OEM has spent a lot of time and money developing in order to just make a buck - then to me it's just wrong. I dont care about the legalities of it or whether the IP was patented. It's not cool to do that. Why don't these companies rather try understand what makes the particular device good and where it can be improved - and then make some changes to it - and call it something else. I think the reason is that it takes effort and people would rather buy a Kayfun clone than a new unheard of device.

For a few years I now prefer to buy authentic where I can afford it. I can't justify buying some of the very highly priced gear - but I would rather buy something authentic that's in my price range.

Obviously everyone will have their own opinion on this - but this is just mine.
Click to expand...

Its not cool @Silver, I’m not saying stealing is right cause its not, but what we are trying to get at is to save someones life(through vaping clones or not) then thats all that should matter to us commoners.

In the quality and workmanship of clones i cannot comment as iv never played with one.

But we are all here for one common goal, which is to stop smoking and live a healthy life so thats all this forum should be about.

Thats one reason judgement should not be passed here, we are all grown ups and should act that way.


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Jean claude Vaaldamme said:
But I know that most things from China are not the best quality
Click to expand...

That is a myth ...... a lot Chinese companies can produce excellent products. Why do you think huge reviewers would link their names to a Chinese manufacturer producing a atty or mod.
Lost Vape, Wotofo, Smok, Wismec, Geekvape, Coilart, Eleaf, Ijoy, Aspire and so on has all produced some great products. :)
 
Jean claude Vaaldamme said:
What is a HE?

As for the topic I dont even know what is clones or not. But I know that most things from China are not the best quality, so if a china clone a china surely your argument against clones cant be quality>:)
Click to expand...

Hi @Jean claude Vaaldamme
HE stands for High End
Typically refers to high quality vaping products that are usually manufactured in fairly small production runs and sold at higher prices than the "commercial" gear that is typically produced and sold in much higher quantities on a global scale.

Check out the following thread in the HE subforum. It might help further:
https://www.ecigssa.co.za/what-is-high-end-gear-is-it-worth-it.t32981/

It seems that the cloners clone more of the HE gear. But you get clones of more reasonably priced "commercial" gear too. For example, the Flave 22 is considered a high end RDA and it sells new here for about R1500-R2,000. Clones are a few hundred Rands. But even the little Eleaf Pico mod has been cloned. So the clone issue does seem to reach quite widely in the spectrum of vape gear.
 
jm10 said:
Its not cool @Silver, I’m not saying stealing is right cause its not, but what we are trying to get at is to save someones life(through vaping clones or not) then thats all that should matter to us commoners.

In the quality and workmanship of clones i cannot comment as iv never played with one.

But we are all here for one common goal, which is to stop smoking and live a healthy life so thats all this forum should be about.

Thats one reason judgement should not be passed here, we are all grown ups and should act that way.


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Click to expand...

Agreed my brother, agreed 110% but some instances, the clones, particularly the Mech mods, are not built with safety in mind, now you tell a noob that look here buddy, here’s a mod that cost 5k example and I’ve got a replica that will cost you 900 and it’s just the same, and in pics you’ll reach fomo level one billion and then there poor guy has the mod short or something worst in his hand, then what?

All vapes and vaping are bad because a bad thing happened to some guy with one and apparently it’s one of the best most expensive ones money can buy? Then what?

We’re having a tough time as it is in terms of legislation in this country do we need bad press right now?

Everyone’s entitled to their opinion granted, and everyone can be pro choice, all I’m saying is educate one another that some clones no matter how good they might look are in fact dangerous!




UV
 
jm10 said:
Its not cool @Silver, I’m not saying stealing is right cause its not, but what we are trying to get at is to save someones life(through vaping clones or not) then thats all that should matter to us commoners.

In the quality and workmanship of clones i cannot comment as iv never played with one.

But we are all here for one common goal, which is to stop smoking and live a healthy life so thats all this forum should be about.

Thats one reason judgement should not be passed here, we are all grown ups and should act that way.


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Click to expand...

Agreed with you @jm10
The most important thing is to help vapers to get off the stinkies and get onto the vaping.
We shouldn't be judging people who buy clones, look down on them, be nasty or divide the community over this issue. I agree with that.

I do think though that educating people about this issue so they can make a more informed choice is the way to go. I agree with what @KZOR said in this regard.

I will stick to my view that cloners who clone a well-known product, names, logos and all - are not cool. That is my view. I may not be right amongst everyone and I do see the benefit to the budget constrained vaper. But it's my view that that this is not cool and I 'd prefer not to give those types of cloners my hard-earned Rands. After all, there are so many great authentic and more reasonably priced devices that vape just as good and may even work better in the long run. I have several of these devices running now for 3/4 years without a problem and they are GREAT.
 
i hope some of you realize that a R5-10K price tag is NOT indicative of anything other than LABOUR
 
Silver said:
I will stick to my view that cloners who clone a well-known product, names, logos and all - are not cool. That is my view. I may not be right amongst everyone and I do see the benefit to the budget constrained vaper. But it's my view that that this is not cool and I 'd prefer not to give those types of cloners my hard-earned Rands. After all, there are so many great authentic and more reasonably priced devices that vape just as good and may even work better in the long run. I have several of these devices running now for 3/4 years without a problem and they are GREAT.
Click to expand...

Oh no...your correct in your views, all of us agree with you on the wrong aspect of cloning. Dont get us wrong @Silver its not that we’re saying cloning is right.

We are fighting the people that pass judgement of loyal forum members for there choices.

Just let the people vape and end goal of quitting stinkies is all that matters no matter which way you do it.


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So I got a clone when I started only because I didn’t want to pay and I wasn’t aware there were clones, and a week later got a cheap authentic kit to make up. But I prefer watching the budget and don’t necessarily buy expensive stuff, only what I feel I want. In vaping, I feel authenticity has a direct corollation to quality and function, not the same as with generic medicines for example. If good quality clones exist, I’m say why not because there is merit to it being cheaper IF the quality and function are the same, we would just not being taken hostage by capatilists. The only difference should be price and quality driven. However, when stealing branding and labeling etc, then that’s just theft anyway.
 
Ok so how do we know that most of these ejiuces is not just a clone of a recipe they got of the internet? Or bought the original and tasted it and made a clone? Should we stop buying juice also?

On that point. If a 60ml cost average R200. That is R3300/l. Then petrol is R16/l , Brandy R150/l
Someone is ripping of someone. This is a new market and maybe clones can get it to its senses. Every second clown opens a little vapeshop around the corner. Seeing that it is still a small market and there are so many shops opening, that means profit margins are huge. So maybe clones etc can bring prices down, because obviously the vendors and manufacturers have only profit in mind and not getting people of cigs?
This is how economics work. New market everyone make a quick buck. Then its settles, big companies will take the market over with cost effective manufacturing and all these fly by night overpriced underskilled garage assembly plants will dissapear. Small, real high end stuff will survive
 
Jean claude Vaaldamme said:
Ok so how do we know that most of these ejiuces is not just a clone of a recipe they got of the internet? Or bought the original and tasted it and made a clone? Should we stop buying juice also?

On that point. If a 60ml cost average R200. That is R3300/l. Then petrol is R16/l , Brandy R150/l
Someone is ripping of someone. This is a new market and maybe clones can get it to its senses. Every second clown opens a little vapeshop around the corner. Seeing that it is still a small market and there are so many shops opening, that means profit margins are huge. So maybe clones etc can bring prices down, because obviously the vendors and manufacturers have only profit in mind and not getting people of cigs?
This is how economics work. New market everyone make a quick buck. Then its settles, big companies will take the market over with cost effective manufacturing and all these fly by night overpriced underskilled garage assembly plants will dissapear. Small, real high end stuff will survive
Click to expand...

We are talking more in the realm of HE gear here eg; rda/rta/mods but i get what your saying.


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I think you guys need to put your handbags down for a minute and consider the real enemy. Cigarettes.

HE or clone as long as you are vaping that is a win.
Pro choice all the way. I see people hating on the fact that some of us decided we will not support intellectual property theft.
If you think we are attacking you or have a moral high ground that makes us better than you then I suggest you look within to establish why your life feels sad and why you have an inferiority complex.

Bottom line is we are all United in the fight against combustible tobacco.

If you choose to feel small then by all means do so in your own personal capacity. If you really think that I care about you or your personal decisions then you are sadly conceited as I do not.

That's is all I have to say on the matter.
 
The market for high end stuff will never be effected by clones.

The only reason you will know someone paid R2000 for a bottle of whiskey, is because he will tell you.

It wasnt bought because it makes you drunk faster, or taste better than the R300 bottle
 
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