New Efest 18650's - confusion

[KB_314]

Hey guys - I still have much to learn about batteries so this is probably a "noobish" question..

The new 2800mah efests - seems that the continuous discharge is 20A, and it's the max continuous discharge that is 35A. Pulse is very much higher still. Whereas the new 2100mah efests boast a 30A continuous discharge and a 38A max continuous discharge.

Am I right in saying that it's actually the 2100mah batteries that are comparable to VTC4's (which state a 30A continuous discharge), and the 2800mah batteries are really more like the previous 2500mahs, but with slightly longer battery life and higher pulse discharge?

In a mech, or a Reo, the VTC4's seem like they hit harder than the old purple efests. Would the same be true if comparing the 2100 vs the 2800 new efests?

 

[Andre]

According to the wrapper on the new Efest 2800s the continuous discharge rate is 35A (pulse is 80A) - so beats all of those you mentioned above? Do you have better information?

 

[KB_314]

According to the wrapper on the new Efest 2800s the continuous discharge rate is 35A (pulse is 80A) - so beats all of those you mentioned above? Do you have better information?

From what I can see, continuous discharge is actually 20A, max continuous discharge is 35A (sorry, I said 30A max, but it's actually 35A).

Efest IMR 18650 LiMn 2800mAh Battery – Flat Top – 35 Amp

Dimensions: 66mm (L) x 18mm (D)

35 Amps discharge current, great for mech mods and sub-ohm builds

Manufacturer’s listed Specifications:

•Rated Capacity: 2800mAh

•Nominal Voltage: 3.6V

•Voltage at end of Discharge: 2.5V

•Max Charging Current: 4A

•Standard Charge: 2A

•Max. continuous discharge current: 35A

•Continuous discharge current: 20A

•Pulse discharging current: 80A

 

[KB_314]

And here are specs for the 2100's..

Efest IMR 18650 LiMn 2100mAh Battery – Flat Top – 38 Amp

Dimensions: 66mm (L) x 18mm (D)

Manufacturer’s listed Specifications:

•Rated Capacity: 2100mAh

•Nominal Voltage: 3.6V

•Voltage at end of Discharge: 2.5V

•Max Charging Current: 4A

•Standard Charge: 2A

•Max. continuous discharge current: 38A

•Continuous discharge current: 30A

•Pulse discharging current: 60A

 

[Matt]

Saw the same specs the 35a is false advertisement (again). The continuous 20a is the industry's standard for all batteries.
Besides that efest is a rewrap company so for them to have batteries that out preform others they should have there own factory and to then out preform lg samsung and sony with all there years of knowledge is very unlikely.

 

[KB_314]

Saw the same specs the 35a is false advertisement (again). The continuous 20a is the industry's standard for all batteries.
Besides that efest is a rewrap company so for them to have batteries that out preform others they should have there own factory and to then out preform lg samsung and sony with all there years of knowledge is very unlikely.

Thanks @Matt - I thought as much. The "too good to be true" 2800's are indeed too good to be true. But the 2100's may be comparable to Sony's if the stats are accurate (I think the 2800's are re-wrapped LG's, not sure bout the 2100's though)

 

[Andre]

Ah, I see, thanks for sharing this most interesting information.

As far as I know (and I could certainly be wrong) the continuous discharge rating thus far have always referred to maximum continuous discharge rating, i.e. you can continuously discharge your battery at the maximum of the stated current. First time I have seen it indicated as you show.

Would be interesting to know what the difference is between the max rate and the non-max rate? Grammatically I cannot see a real difference between the 2 terms. Maybe Efest is playing false with us again.

 

[KB_314]

Ah, I see, thanks for sharing this most interesting information.

As far as I know (and I could certainly be wrong) the continuous discharge rating thus far have always referred to maximum continuous discharge rating, i.e. you can continuously discharge your battery at the maximum of the stated current. First time I have seen it indicated as you show.

Would be interesting to know what the difference is between the max rate and the non-max rate? Grammatically I cannot see a real difference between the 2 terms. Maybe Efest is playing false with us again.

It looks like that's the case @Andre - it seems like (and I can certainly be wrong here too) the 2800's are the usual 20A continuous discharge. The 2100's are the equivalent of the 30A continuous discharge - but VTC4's (30A continuous) are also only 2100mah, so nothing special about these either I guess. I don't think I will be rushing to get these at this point

 

[Matt]

Ah, I see, thanks for sharing this most interesting information.

As far as I know (and I could certainly be wrong) the continuous discharge rating thus far have always referred to maximum continuous discharge rating, i.e. you can continuously discharge your battery at the maximum of the stated current. First time I have seen it indicated as you show.

Would be interesting to know what the difference is between the max rate and the non-max rate? Grammatically I cannot see a real difference between the 2 terms. Maybe Efest is playing false with us again.

I have never seen the 2 different rating with any other manufacturer beside efest. So to me it looks like a grammatical marketing trick.

 

[Andre]

It looks like that's the case @Andre - it seems like (and I can certainly be wrong here too) the 2800's are the usual 20A continuous discharge. The 2100's are the equivalent of the 30A continuous discharge - but VTC4's (30A continuous) are also only 2100mah, so nothing special about these either I guess. I don't think I will be rushing to get these at this point

But then look at their own announcement of 14 April 2015, which says the continuous discharge rating is 35A: http://www.efestpower.com/html/9504683725.html
I shall send them an email and ask for clarification.

 

[KB_314]

@Hein510 - can you shed some light here?

 

[Matt]

Wondering if someone already removed the wrap to see wich batteries they used to rewrap.

 

[Andre]

Where did you get those specifications from @KB_314? I can not find them on the Efest site.

 

[KB_314]

But then look at their own announcement of 14 April 2015, which says the continuous discharge rating is 35A: http://www.efestpower.com/html/9504683725.html
I shall send them an email and ask for clarification.

Please share if they reply. It would also be good to understand the difference between "continuous discharge" and "max continuous discharge", and why the wrapper shows the "max continuous" and not the "continuous". Smells fishy

 

[KB_314]

Where did you get those specifications from @KB_314? I can not find them on the Efest site.

I got them from VapeMOB website - but I've seen the same online more than once. I will try and find other sources

 

[Matt]

http://www.myvaporstore.com/Efest-IMR-18650-LiMn-2800mAh-Battery-35A-p/ef6502835.htm

 

[Andre]

http://www.myvaporstore.com/Efest-IMR-18650-LiMn-2800mAh-Battery-35A-p/ef6502835.htm

Thanks, got that one from ECF as well. They are as confused as we are!
Sent an email. Shall report here should I get a response. And if I do not.

 

[KB_314]

Changed title of thread from "question" to "confusion" - seems that it's not just a once-off noob question afterall

 

[Gazzacpt]

Rumour was that efest were going to use a new MNKE cell but I haven't seen any news on a new MNKE cell so I'm confused to.

 

[capetocuba]

Thanks @Matt But the 2100's may be comparable to Sony's if the stats are accurate (I think the 2800's are re-wrapped LG's, not sure bout the 2100's though)

Can't remember where I read it (few places), but the consensus is that these are Sony VTC4's.

 

[KB_314]

Can't remember where I read it (few places), but the consensus is that these are Sony VTC4's.

If that's true, they are 30A CD, not 38A. (Which would put the 2800's at 20A - relative to stats provided on other batteries)

 

[free3dom]

I've been waiting for some independent testing to be performed on these cells and still haven't seen anything. I simply do not trust any battery manufacturer anymore as they all seem to try and confuse us with their marketing mumbo-jumbo. I do hope they give you a straight answer @Andre , but I wouldn't hold my breath - or even trust them if they do reply.

Unfortunately the testing required is way too dangerous for us laymen to perform so the wait continues - this did seem too good to be true, thanks @KB_314 for bringing this to our attention

On the other hand, a 2800mAh cell with a 20A discharge rate is still a good battery, especially considering the cost - and the 2100mAh @ 30A is decent spec too.

I just wish for once they'd be more straightforward about it

 

[ET]

Doesn't this lying about battery specs mean we can all file a class action suit?

 

[Silver]

Thanks @KB_314 for bringing this up

I too am confused by the two different continuous discharge ratings. Strange
Looking forward to clarification. Thanks for sending a message to them @Andre

Anyhow, for mechanical users, what I am more interested in is the curve which shows how much usable mah there is between 4.2 Volts and say 3.7 Volts where i would change the batt. At say a 8 amp draw, which is about 0.5 ohms resistance. And also at 4 amp draw, which is about 1 ohm resistance

Although these batteries are rated at 2800 mah, we typically dont even use a third of that before the voltage comes down to a point that the batt needs to be swapped out.

 

[DoubleD]

Anyhow, for mechanical users, what I am more interested in is the curve which shows how much usable mah there is between 4.2 Volts and say 3.7 Volts where i would change the batt. At say a 8 amp draw, which is about 0.5 ohms resistance. And also at 4 amp draw, which is about 1 ohm resistance

Although these batteries are rated at 2800 mah, we typically dont even use a third of that before the voltage comes down to a point that the batt needs to be swapped out.

Same here, I'm waiting on Peg to get his hands on these batteries.
We need charts man, charts! Give us charts