Nic salts - yay or nay?

[Spongebob]

I smoked 40+ Stuyvesant filter for more than 20years. Never did I need to go to a doctor, or had any nic attacks or could not sleep. So obviously there is a problem? Regulations are set on products, to keep idiots harming themselves.

A few weeks of cigarettes is great, but does not mean you have kicked the habit, the longer you need this high nic fixes, the further you will be from kicking the habit. Read this forum, many of the regular members that has been vaping for years still smoke or fall back to smoking.
I will put money on it that this sudden nic salts frenzy is tobacco companies boosting it to keep everyone hooked

Everyone may do as he/she pleases, but if you dont stop your addiction, by simply changing its name. Then you still addicted to the same thing and fall back at any time

I did not want to nor intend to get involved in an argument about this, but calling people idiots for wanting to, by any and all means, quit a habit that causes one to take in 7000 odd chemicals every time you light up, and then managing to do it by replacing that habit with something that causes ingestion of only four chemicals, albeit in a little higher concentration, does NOT sit well with me.......

@Crazyj used a 30ml bottle in three weeks and i used one 7ml pod and one Beserker tank in this past week, so let's call it 10ml of 25mg salts for argument sake so at 25mg/ml we took in 250mg of nic over the week.

If i was still smoking this past week, i would have smoked 15 stinkies a day, Chesterfield soft, which means i would have taken in 135mg of tar per day and 945mg over the weekthat's besides the almost identical amount of nic i would have taken in, and not adding the 105000 units, for lack of a better word, per day of other, scientifically proven, highly dangerous chemicals

Also if you consult Dr google on the side effects of quitting smoking, there is a list as long as my arm, which includes headaches, nausea, vomiting, sleep disturbances, muscle aches, etc etc etc which i suspect has more to do with the body cleansing itself, than anything else

Are there idiots out there that abuse mechanical mods and nic salts, that end up in hospital or the morgue? Yes quite a few i suspect, but i venture a guess that neither me nor @Crazyj or anyone else that quits with salts fall into that category

So go ahead and call me and idiot again...... but this time make sure you come with the facts........


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[Silver]

Guys, just cool it over here

Let's not get into any arguments. What's said has been said - but lets remember the forum rules - play the ball not the man.

Its great to debate topics but when it starts to get personal its not good and then we have to step in. Please don't let it get to the point that we have arguments flying all over the place and we have to then lock threads. That would be such a shame.

 

[Jean claude Vaaldamme]

I did not want to nor intend to get involved in an argument about this, but calling people idiots for wanting to, by any and all means, quit a habit that causes one to take in 7000 odd chemicals every time you light up, and then managing to do it by replacing that habit with something that causes ingestion of only four chemicals, albeit in a little higher concentration, does NOT sit well with me.......

@Crazyj used a 30ml bottle in three weeks and i used one 7ml pod and one Beserker tank in this past week, so let's call it 10ml of 25mg salts for argument sake so at 25mg/ml we took in 250mg of nic over the week.

If i was still smoking this past week, i would have smoked 15 stinkies a day, Chesterfield soft, which means i would have taken in 135mg of tar per day and 945mg over the weekthat's besides the almost identical amount of nic i would have taken in, and not adding the 105000 units, for lack of a better word, per day of other, scientifically proven, highly dangerous chemicals

Also if you consult Dr google on the side effects of quitting smoking, there is a list as long as my arm, which includes headaches, nausea, vomiting, sleep disturbances, muscle aches, etc etc etc which i suspect has more to do with the body cleansing itself, than anything else

Are there idiots out there that abuse mechanical mods and nic salts, that end up in hospital or the morgue? Yes quite a few i suspect, but i venture a guess that neither me nor @Crazyj or anyone else that quits with salts fall into that category

So go ahead and call me and idiot again...... but this time make sure you come with the facts........


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I did not call anyone an idiot. I said regulations are placed to protect idiots from harming themselves. Who stops any idiot from filling an sub ohm tank with 48mg nic? Other guy I know phoned me the other day, because he know I diy, and said he want to mix a few one shots, but could not get nic pg nic so he just bought nic salts. Now if that is so easy that anyone that knows nothing, can just go buy anything that you can harm or even kill yourself with. Then there is a problem.

As for the calculations, there has been many threads here with claims of how deffirent types of nicotine is absorbed into the blood. And some has way more of an effect than others, so maybe read that before the calculations.

An idiot that blew himself up with a mech mod was headlines all over the world, no mention of the other million mech mods that never exploded. Same will go for the idiot that overdsed on nic, there will be no mention f the millions of diyers that know what they doing. Regulations are needed to protect the industry.
Like I said before, never heard of anyone getting a nic overdose from cigarettes. But go read the nic salts threads and tell me there is not a problem. Hell I think I even read somewhere that Silver got his name from to much nic, cant recall if it was nic salts or normal nic.

 

[Jean claude Vaaldamme]

Hi @Jean claude Vaaldamme - i hear what you are saying and understand your sentiment

I have been on this forum for a number of years and my sense is that the majority of "regular members" who have been here for a long time have not smoked. I.e. vaping has been able to get them off smoking for a long time.

I genuinely believe that vaping is a great way to get off the stinkies. Last time I had a stinkie was in Oct 2013 and although I still vape I consider it far better than smoking. Furthermore I dont feel the need to vape as often as I felt the need to smoke and I dont get as irritated when I dont vape for several hours like I did when I was a smoker. I havent used nic salts - am on normal nicotine juices. And it has worked very well for me.

Yes I also believe that vaping is one of the best ways to stop smoking. Look at me, over 40 a day and now almost 4months off it. But that can only work if you want to stop. By just replacing smoking with the same or even more nic, is just a recipe for failure.
What will happen if next month some study proof vaping is really dangerous and it gets banned all over the world. Do you think all vapers that still use nic will be able not to smoke again? So my theory stands, as long as you use nic, you havent kicked the habit. And I include myself there, Im still on 3mg, so cant yet kick the habit and is still addicted, but Im working on that.

As for members. When I joined I was under the impression that if you vape you dont smoke. Over the few months I was actually amazed how many time I see that people that has been members for a few years still smoke a few everyday, or stopped and then started again. Majority? No but I see it often. So again, as long as you addicted, always chance of going back.

Did I know cigarettes are bad for me? Yes, but that was my choice if I wanted to smoke. I did not however made claims that its not as bad as they say. Do I know vaping is healthier? Yes. Is it 100% safe and healthy? No I dont think so. So I wont go and encourage my kids or anyone else to start vaping.

And no Im not trying to start arguments. But surely the other side should be discussed aswell? Surely if sme of these symtoms pops up, alarm bells should go off and the industry or someone should discuss it. Inmean read these nic salt thread, closed chest, struggle breathing, cant sleep, etc etc, nose bleeds. Im sure I even read somewhere someone coughing blood. This is a recipe for a disaster and if Im the only one that think there is a problem, then I must be crazy.

 

[Spongebob]

@Silver plse delete my post if possibleas i said only my opinion and i will go with what works for meno hard feelings, just felt it needed to be said

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[Silver]

Same will go for the idiot that overdsed on nic, there will be no mention f the millions of diyers that know what they doing. Regulations are needed to protect the industry.
Like I said before, never heard of anyone getting a nic overdose from cigarettes. But go read the nic salts threads and tell me there is not a problem. Hell I think I even read somewhere that Silver got his name from to much nic, cant recall if it was nic salts or normal nic.

I hear what you are saying about overdosing on nic

Not sure about strong nic salts - but for normal nic juices, its extremely unlikely to get a lethal overdose of nic while vaping. If you have too much nic, your body will let you know long before. You start sweating, you get a nauseous feeling and you feel you need to lie down. Its your body's way of saying slow down with that.

If you down a big bottle of 100mg nic, that's a different story - but I'm talking about vaping the juices not drinking it.

As for me and the term Silver - no, I didnt get the name from that - I had the name already - its just that people referred to my name when they have had too much nic - because that's what happened to me several years back at a vape meet. Unpleasant experience but far from lethal. It was normal nic. You can read more about it here:
https://www.ecigssa.co.za/doing-a-silver-what-does-this-mean.t4335/

 

[Silver]

Yes I also believe that vaping is one of the best ways to stop smoking. Look at me, over 40 a day and now almost 4months off it. But that can only work if you want to stop. By just replacing smoking with the same or even more nic, is just a recipe for failure.
What will happen if next month some study proof vaping is really dangerous and it gets banned all over the world. Do you think all vapers that still use nic will be able not to smoke again? So my theory stands, as long as you use nic, you havent kicked the habit. And I include myself there, Im still on 3mg, so cant yet kick the habit and is still addicted, but Im working on that.

As for members. When I joined I was under the impression that if you vape you dont smoke. Over the few months I was actually amazed how many time I see that people that has been members for a few years still smoke a few everyday, or stopped and then started again. Majority? No but I see it often. So again, as long as you addicted, always chance of going back.

Did I know cigarettes are bad for me? Yes, but that was my choice if I wanted to smoke. I did not however made claims that its not as bad as they say. Do I know vaping is healthier? Yes. Is it 100% safe and healthy? No I dont think so. So I wont go and encourage my kids or anyone else to start vaping.

And no Im not trying to start arguments. But surely the other side should be discussed aswell? Surely if sme of these symtoms pops up, alarm bells should go off and the industry or someone should discuss it. Inmean read these nic salt thread, closed chest, struggle breathing, cant sleep, etc etc, nose bleeds. Im sure I even read somewhere someone coughing blood. This is a recipe for a disaster and if Im the only one that think there is a problem, then I must be crazy.

I hear you @Jean claude Vaaldamme and I understand what you are saying.

I do agree that if nic salts get out of hand and people get even more addicted to the nic salts than they were to the smoking then its not a good thing. If people are suffering those symptoms you talk about, that's not good either. But some of the symptoms might also be a byproduct of stopping the stinkies.

I had sleep disturbances and a bit of phlegm on the chest initially - when I switched to vaping. But I understand that was the system undoing the years of being used to the smoking and the chemicals in the cigarettes.

It does seem that a few people have used nic salts to initially get off the stinkies and then convert to normal nicotine later. That does sound like a good path for those who can't kick the stinkies with normal nic. Better that I suppose than just remaining a smoker.

I dont use nic salts but that's mainly because when I tried them a few times I got little to no throat hit. And I like my throat hit.

I do worry what will come next though. Some other additives in vaping juice to enhance the nic hit. Or even other substances to make you feel better.

I think where we are with the normal nic juices is fairly well understood and quite well researched already. Most scientific research seems to suggest that vaping in this way is an order of magnitude safer than smoking. Yes, not 100% safe but much, much safer. Not just a little bit safer. There is still more research that needs to be done on inhaling the different flavour compounds, which were meant for ingestion not inhaling - but I will take what I currently know and the way I feel and will be happy about it.

I do agree that we need to discuss all these things from all angles. And that is one of the reasons I started this thread. To find out what other people's experiences are with nic salts.

 

[Silver]

@Silver plse delete my post if possibleas i said only my opinion and i will go with what works for meno hard feelings, just felt it needed to be said

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No need to delete it @Spongebob - you said what you said because you felt it needed to be said.
If you want to you can edit your post or delete it yourself.

But lets just move on and continue the discussions

 

[stevie g]

Yay if they don't contain benzoic acid.

Another Yay if they use organic acids!

 

[stevie g]

My experience with nic salts has been constant coughing even at the 20-25 mg range which is the lowest I believe

Too much for me with a very tight chest feeling

Taste - I get a prominent chemical, acidic taste which put me off

typically reminiscent of chlorine, these are benzoic based salts

 

[stevie g]

I joke and say that Nic Salts is the "Devils work"! But seriously I think they are bad news and just another way of addicting people to Nicotine. I concede that there is a place for Nic Salts, especially when converting a smoker but I think high nic normal juice is a better option and worked for most of us.

nic salts derived from acids other than benzoic can be helpful in satiating nic crave with less side effects.

 

[stevie g]

I believe they have their place, even though I definitely think there’s a risk of becoming more dependent on nicotine when using nic salts. For me at the moment, I take a few puffs here and there in between vaping free base and it helps curb the cravings for a stinkie. I’m giving myself a week from today, using nic salts, and after that I want to stick to free base. I’d rather not use nic salts long term.

traditional nicotine eliquid is great though I struggle with heavy chest when on 3mg and 6mg is too harsh for me.

 

[stevie g]

For me, it depends on whether you want to quit or switch. If you want to quit nicotine addiction, nic salts would be a terrible way to go about it. If you are content to remain addicted to nic but just want to reduce the harms from combustible tobacco, nic salts are fine. I'm trying to quit addiction so I'll never use nic salts or own a pod. Undoing the progress I've made over the past three years would just be crazy.

That said, I'm not complacent enough to assume that it will stop at nic salts. The industry has financial incentive to make its products as addictive as possible. With salts, they were at least open and honest about the high nic levels so I knew to avoid it. The problem is going to arise when they start slipping 'additives' into nic without telling anyone. And it's going to happen, you can bet your house on it. JUUL went from a start-up to a $10bn company in a matter of a few years, based primarily on cramming as much nic as they possibly could into every puff. Others will want to emulate that success and up the ante further. Doing it without the user even realising how much nic they're inhaling would be a sly way to go about it. So I'm very wary indeed, and keeping an eye on all juice testing studies for signs of new chemicals that weren't in vapour before.

Quitting cigarettes for nic salts would be a win either way. Benzoic acid issues two carcinogenic markers at temp over 220 Celsius, much less than cigarettes.

Addiction is human nature so we need to choose what we become addicted to.

The industry (market) goes where it will. Some companies do put out bad products and it's our responsibility to hold them to account.

 

[JurgensSt]

Tried nic salts for the first time this weekend ...... not sure why people will want to use nic salt

 

[Spongebob]

Tried nic salts for the first time this weekend ...... not sure why people will want to use nic salt

Why

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[JurgensSt]

Why

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To strong. Two Puffs and my head started spinning.

I'm a weakling

Send from the small screen

 

[Spongebob]

Then i must be He-man i vape 25mg salts all day long

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[Kalashnikov]

Haven't read through the entire thread but I just picked up a pod device . and I was having a look at some nic salt juices . could someone justify what makes a 30ml nic salt cost the same price as any other 100ml 12mg nicotine juice , I just don't get why they cost so much?

 

[Dela Rey Steyn]

Haven't read through the entire thread but I just picked up a pod device . and I was having a look at some nic salt juices . could someone justify what makes a 30ml nic salt cost the same price as any other 100ml 12mg nicotine juice , I just don't get why they cost so much?

I think it would come down to quantity of materials used, as most 50/50 PG/VG mixes made for MTL vaping uses higher percentages Flavour Concentrates and more Nicotine (either Freebase or Salts)

 

[Ruwaid]

Haven't read through the entire thread but I just picked up a pod device . and I was having a look at some nic salt juices . could someone justify what makes a 30ml nic salt cost the same price as any other 100ml 12mg nicotine juice , I just don't get why they cost so much?

sent you a text bud! Got something for you! @Kalashnikov