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[PSySpin]

The problem i see here is: If i bought the juices from Blends of distinction and resold them can i also expect to see the police nocking on my door and confiscate the juice as i am not a registered vendor. @blendsofdistiction Doug the backlash that you are getting is that the manner that you handled this action was most likely in a wrong manner.

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[Slick]

Cmon guys lets just drop it,its easy to sit here and judge but we dont know what was blends intentions and how it was when he got there,maybe we wouldve done the same if we were in his place,but all this negativity affects the forum,so lets all just carry on with our lives and be happy!

 

[DougP]

We have subsequently verified that the actual liquid is okay and not cloned or watered down
The owner has provided us with a valid proof of purchase and we have now compensated him at the price at which he purchased it at

 

[Polar]

Problem as I see it is that BOD posted a picture of this guys stock. There are other local juices on his shelfs, are the other local guys going to react the same and go and empty this guy out.

What if it was Philip Rock's Looper (or some other juices we don't readily find locally) he was selling? I'd probably go get myself some...

 

[DougP]

Gentlemen I am asking that you please read our comments above
The environment in which the juice was being sold was what we had an issue with
Public were opening bottles and smelling the juice, tamper seals on bottles were broken, children could touch bottles, the same bottles that were opened were being sold to the public
We at the time also had no way of verifying the quality of the juice and where it was purchased from. At no time did we bully or strong arm the shop owner we had a very amicable and open discussion with him
We explained to him the health and safety issues which formed the basis of our decision. We have subsequently reverted back to him and have compensated him, at his purchase price, which he can verify

 

[boxerulez]

We have subsequently verified that the actual liquid is okay and not cloned or watered down
The owner has provided us with a valid proof of purchase and we have now compensated him at the price at which he purchased it at

That is fantastic. Perhaps school the dude a little, might be profitable for you in future to supply him if he starts selling in the correct manner.

Big up guys, this is all I was hoping for, not to cause any friction.

 

[Hardtail1969]

Oh i do love all the social justice warriors...

First, as a business, one has to protect ones product, its name, and especially here, in this case, where vaping in general, already has a uncertaib future based on the whims of the goverment.

If say, macdonalds, found out, i was selling their hamburgers, which i bought from them, at a markup, and the product was aged, and left or stored in unsanitary or unsafe conditions, and they rocked up, closed me down, and i got arrested by the cops, would anyone say macdonalds was a douche?

How about viagra? What if i bought viagra, and sold it at a markup somewhere that it cant be bought? And the containers were open? If pfizer pitches with cops, and i am prosecuted, would you call pfizer douche's?

I say big ups to responsible producers.

I say, if you want to take a chance, dont whinge when you are caught.

I say, it would have, in my opinion, been their right to seek damages from this seller.

I say, don't pay him for your stock, that should only have been sold by a retailer that conforms to your recommended practices for your product.

We are already seeing huge issues regarding safe batteries, and how sellers and unscrupulous people are selling them with new wraps.

Would you have a issue with lg preventing the sale of their batteries if they had been re wrapped and stored/sold unsafely?

Social justice is wonderful for the touchy feely wanna hug a bunny, give another chance brigade...

But not when it comes to safety, and protecting vaping freedom in south africa.

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[boxerulez]

Oh i do love all the social justice warriors...

First, as a business, one has to protect ones product, its name, and especially here, in this case, where vaping in general, already has a uncertaib future based on the whims of the goverment.

If say, macdonalds, found out, i was selling their hamburgers, which i bought from them, at a markup, and the product was aged, and left or stored in unsanitary or unsafe conditions, and they rocked up, closed me down, and i got arrested by the cops, would anyone say macdonalds was a douche?
The cops won't show up nor will you be arrested, you will be shut down by Health Inspectors...
How about viagra? What if i bought viagra, and sold it at a markup somewhere that it cant be bought? And the containers were open? If pfizer pitches with cops, and i am prosecuted, would you call pfizer douche's?
That is controlled medication, that is crime.
I say big ups to responsible producers.

I say, if you want to take a chance, dont whinge when you are caught.

I say, it would have, in my opinion, been their right to seek damages from this seller.

I say, don't pay him for your stock, that should only have been sold by a retailer that conforms to your recommended practices for your product.
I say drop the vendor who sold it to him...
We are already seeing huge issues regarding safe batteries, and how sellers and unscrupulous people are selling them with new wraps.

Would you have a issue with lg preventing the sale of their batteries if they had been re wrapped and stored/sold unsafely?

Social justice is wonderful for the touchy feely wanna hug a bunny, give another chance brigade...

But not when it comes to safety, and protecting vaping freedom in south africa.
Education is even better, educate the shop owner, offer him a vendorship.
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Some valid points there, however this has been settled the correct way rather than the way you would have liked. Very opinionated on the matter but also very little factual commentary from your write up.

 

[Hardtail1969]

Some valid points there, however this has been settled the correct way rather than the way you would have liked. Very opinionated on the matter but also very little factual commentary from your write up.

Oh? And you werent as opinionated? And as for your facts?

Dont make me laugh dude, you call them names, and then get offended when they turn it around on you?

Plus, the picture, is way bigger than some twerp with a fleamarket stall who is out a few bucks.

If, the public got ill, or suffered a death as a result of this fleamarket stalls actions, would you still say, "poor guy"? Or would you be calling for his head, as well as shaming a manufacturer who allows their juice to be sold in a unsafe manner?

Their actions were correct and responsible, and i find it a huge shame, that public pressure has forced them to pay this person as well.

Vaping and the freedom to continue to do so, rests on each of our shoulders, and greatly so on manufacturers, who must protect their product, its name and reputation, and by doing that, ensure that our past time is free from over regulation and unneeded goverment intervention in the first place.

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[boxerulez]

Oh? And you werent as opinionated? And as for your facts?

Dont make me laugh dude, you call them names, and then get offended when they turn it around on you?

Plus, the picture, is way bigger than some twerp with a fleamarket stall who is out a few bucks.

If, the public got ill, or suffered a death as a result of this fleamarket stalls actions, would you still say, "poor guy"? Or would you be calling for his head, as well as shaming a manufacturer who allows their juice to be sold in a unsafe manner?

Their actions were correct and responsible, and i find it a huge shame, that public pressure has forced them to pay this person as well.

Vaping and the freedom to continue to do so, rests on each of our shoulders, and greatly so on manufacturers, who must protect their product, its name and reputation, and by doing that, ensure that our past time is free from over regulation and unneeded goverment intervention in the first place.

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Yes their actions were correct.

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[craigb]

IANAL and I tend to be a bit more idealistic.

Property ownership laws forbid illegal search and seizure. The stall owner had (presumably) legally obtained the merchandise and was engaged in legal trade of product. If there are doubts as to the authenticity of the product, a case should be opened with SAPS.

If there are questions regarding the health aspects of the product and/or sales environment, then this should be brought to the attention of the Health authorities and/or a case opened with SAPS.

Yes, MacDonalds would strong arm a 'reseller' but they would not send a bunch of guys to collect the questionable product, they would approach the issue with lawyers and health inspectors and a metric shit ton of paperwork.

Yes, we are all responsible for ensuring the safety of the vaping community at large, but due process should, and in fact must, be respected. The fact that due process may not always work or be efficient is not an argument for illegal seizures.

Compensating the stall owner was the correct thing to do as he was in legal possession of the product and exercising his right to trade. Misrepresenting the product as International Juice opens him up to a case of fraud that should be opened with SAPS, mishandling dangerous chemicals (specifically regarding the Nicotine content) is bound to be covered by at least one law that can be used to open up a case with SAPS or to initiate a health dept probe.

I'm glad to see this specific instance was resolved amicably, but it did come across as very strong armed and could have possibly been handled better, but on the other hand, it could have been handled a lot worse.

Big ups to the vendor for compensating the vendor once you had determined the product was legit, albeit potentially compromised. But I feel I must also point out that while I believe you felt you were acting with the best intentions, you had a mistaken sense of urgency in the matter and you did potentially open yourself to charges of theft.

My 5c worth.

 

[Igno]

I would have seen this as a perfect opportunity to school the flea-market vendor on hygiene and how the juice should be displayed and sold. Also instead of confiscating the juice, given him the opportunity to buy his stock from you directly and become an authorised reseller. Would a fancy vape-shop in Menlyn for an example been treated the same?... I don't agree with these heavy handed tactics, even if they were refunded.

 

[Imotions]

So what happens if say like the flea market guy i buy from a vendor and sell in my shop at a mark up? Or say i buy direct from the vendor and put a markup... yes guys may or may not know the prices everyone else sells it but they still buy from me.. everyone needs a few extra bucks and now again what happens to selling or trading liquid from other guys that vape how would i know if its safe or they havnt done anything to it or if it was stored correctly?

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[RichJB]

If, the public got ill, or suffered a death as a result of this fleamarket stalls actions, would you still say, "poor guy"? Or would you be calling for his head, as well as shaming a manufacturer who allows their juice to be sold in a unsafe manner?

I'll answer that with an analogy. If restaurant patrons got ill because the kitchen staff were using utensils contaminated with bacteria, would I be shaming the farmers who supply that restaurant because they allowed their produce to be prepared in an unsanitary manner? No, I wouldn't shame them. And I'd be concerned about the sanity of anybody who did.

 

[Hardtail1969]

I'll answer that with an analogy. If restaurant patrons got ill because the kitchen staff were using utensils contaminated with bacteria, would I be shaming the farmers who supply that restaurant because they allowed their produce to be prepared in an unsanitary manner? No, I wouldn't shame them. And I'd be concerned about the sanity of anybody who did.

And if the farmer, heard about a restaurant, who was making people ill with his produce, does he just sit back and say, "not my worry mate"?
Or does he intervene, and find out if it is his product or the restaurant that is to blame?

After all, if its his product, then its his name, his livelihood, and if people on social media slate his produce, how long before his farm and business is gone?



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[craigb]

And if the farmer, heard about a restaurant, who was making people ill with his produce, does he just sit back and say, "not my worry mate"?
Or does he intervene, and find out if it is his product or the restaurant that is to blame?

After all, if its his product, then its his name, his livelihood, and if people on social media slate his produce, how long before his farm and business is gone?



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he does not send a couple of burly farm hands to confiscate the goods. He follows due process and reports the matter to the appropriate authorities and lets the system do its thing.

 

[RichJB]

@Hardtail1969, the farmer wouldn't have to do anything. If people are getting ill at a restaurant, the restaurant will hear about it. If they are doing nothing wrong and it's the farmer's beef (or whatever) that is contaminated, the farmer will hear about it soon enough. If it's the restaurant that is doing something wrong, they will do something about it. If the restaurant doesn't do anything about it, the public health authorities will. So the farmer only needs to take action if it's his own product that is the health hazard.

Of course, if the farmer visits the restaurant to drop off some beef and sees previous deliveries of his beef lying in the hot sun in the back courtyard, he can talk to the restaurant owner about it and urge him to adopt more hygienic processes. But he has no legal obligation to visit the restaurant premises and ensure that their storage, handling and preparation are up to snuff. If the restaurant owner tells him to butt out and not interfere in how the restaurant owner runs his business, the best approach would be to report it to the public health authorities and let them inspect the restaurant premises. That is what they are trained and paid to do.

 

[craigb]

To add, the vendor's concern for his brand identity and public health is not the cause of concern for most people and that he did something about it is admirable and to be commended ... it is the heavy handed, borderline illegal confiscation of goods that has got people hackles up.

 

[Hardtail1969]

While this is a interesting discussion, i wonder how the same vendors feel when sars rocks up with the manufacturer reps from nike, adidas, gucci and the like, along with hordes of cops, to confiscate all the fake goodies, then you are all quiet. Where is your moral outrage then? Where are your demands that sars or the manufacturers compensate those poor sellers?

When do you realise that for a small operation, like a vape juice manufacturer, who only has their name to protect, and acts in the same way the big boys do, is just and right?

I wonder, if any of you wonderfull people, so full of sagacity and this outraged sense of fair play etc would feel if this was your own personal business, your own money, your own future involved.

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[RichJB]

If retailers are selling fake Nike goods, they are dealing in illicit goods. These were not illicit juices, they were legit juices bought retail. If BoD closed down a retailer selling cloned or stolen juice, I'd be giving them big ups.

My first point of departure in cases like this is to assess what drives the accused, what his intent is. If he was selling stolen juices, or gross home-made juice where he slapped on a forged BoD label, or legit juices that he'd watered down to half-strength or less, then he has criminal and malicious intent. So I have no problem putting him out of business. The guy is a cheat and a crook.

In this case, I'm working with limited info as per what BoD has told us. But it seems to me that this guy's intentions are not bad. He bought juice retail and is selling it at a mark-up with a bit of BS marketing about it being imported. That is not ideal but it's not a major crime either. He also seems to have answered questions about his business problems honestly. It seems to me that his sins are caused by a mix of ignorance about safety and the practical difficulties of running a busy stall on his own where he cannot exert control over all customers all the time.

For such a person, I'd be inclined to try and help and educate him. If his intentions are sound, he will take hygiene and safety matters to heart and strive to improve his service to customers. These are desperate times, people will do anything for money. I would consider this guy's sins to be very far down the list of criminality. Putting him out of business might cause him to resort to something that has more seriously harmful consequences for society. So I'd rather help him and try to keep him in the legal loop. Maybe I'm misreading the situation but that is my gut feel about it.

 

[daniel craig]

Guys just leave this thread. It's sorted out now and @Blends Of Distinction said the vendor was paid for the stock. There's no point going on and on about it. I think we should all just move forward and leave it at this.