The Secret is out

[Intuthu Kagesi]

Having recycled disposables for some months now, we decided to do some analysis of the vape juice remaining in them ... and ... the secret is out.

The majority tested contained l-α-aspartyl-N-(2,2,4,4-tetramethyl-3-thioethanyl)-d-alaninamide, (Alitame).
This is an temperature stable amino acid-based sweetener permitted for use in foods in South Africa, (albeit that it's banned in a few too), and is some 2000 times sweeter than sucralose , (which is already some 600 times sweeter than sugar) ... and now you know why disposables are as sweet as they are

The eliquid tested respective pH's were also acidic at between 4.5 and 6, (with fairly substantial traces of Sodium Chloride to boot), implying that their goals are indeed nefarious in my humble opinion, attempting to not only improve the reuptake of high %'s of nicotine, but to hide the "taste" of it.

Sidenote:
Due to the increased uptake of nicotine in Nicotine Salts the equivalent values would be 2mg/ml Nicotine Salts roughly equal to 12mg/ml Freebase Nicotine ...
Lowering the pH further would further improve the reuptake, (which is what disposable manufacturers are doing).

 

[Resistance]

Thanks for that. Time and effort appreciated.
Question. Do we Only use this info for awareness.

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

Thanks for that. Time and effort appreciated.
Question. Do we Only use this info for awareness.

You're most welcome
Apropos your question ... Knowledge is power ... use it as you see fit ... Apparently , (according to our illustrious semi educated powers that be, aka government), Alitame is safe for human consumption, in which case South African juice manufacturers may wish to take advantage of this knowledge and compete against the Chinese? or; Disposable and Salts eliquid manufacturers could do the right thing and lower Salt Nicotine levels, (obviously reducing the need for high concentrates of flavours and sweeteners in the process), or we could just ban the bloody disposables and go back to known quantities.

 

[Stranger]

Blows your mind doesn't it. Thanks mate for the info.

After years of promoting smoking and then having backlash, big tobacco started with additives to keep you smoking, now we see the same cycle with vaping.

Who is is catching, the youngsters, the very people we do not want addicted to nicotine. This world is an insidious place.

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

Just in ...
It seems that the balance of disposables tested had another sweetener present, Neotame, (3S)-3-[(3,3-Dimethylbutyl)amino]-4-{[(2S)-1-methoxy-1-oxo-3-phenylpropan-2-yl]amino}-4-oxobutanoic acid ... and it is 8000 times sweeter than sucrose, no that's not a typo ... Eight Thousand Times Sweeter! and ... Surprise ... it's also on the allowable in SA sweetener list

Interesting reading ... https://pinnaclefitness707.com/blog...e-between-stevia-sucrosesplenda-and-sucralose

 

[zandernwn]

You have used many words and with all of it jumbled all together it sounds very scary and intimidating...


BUT

Most of what you are saying it not at all as alarming as you make it out to be, if you understand the basic principles behind how NicSalts work

ALL Nice salts are acidic.
Acidity makes it easier to ingest vaporized nic as it removes the throat hit
Improving nicotine absorption is more a function of vapour pressure than PH.
Aldamine is actually very srable at high temps, making it a pretty good option for vaporization ( but i will be the first to admit that i know very little about it and will not comment until i know more)

So most of this is not unique to cheap chinese disposables...

Do I agree that Chinese manufacturers will cut corners wherever they can? ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY!!

But... In my honest opinion, I do not feel like the information you presented is particularly revealing or damaging... At least not if no substantiating information is provided to definitely illustrate the harm this causes... Most of the information is what is commonly known in terms of gow nicotine salts work and as for the sweeteners... Like i said I'll comment once I know more about them... Just because they have long chemical names does not mean they are harmful

Dihydrogen Oxide is a good example of this.

 

[Resistance]

Well I think it's viable info, thanks for that.
Anyone can still decide how they want to use the info and do a bit more research of their own.
One thing I didn't know is how food and drink manufacturers manipulate some of these "(chemicals) "to react with the brain and bind with certain receptors and that's also legal. Found that out recently so I'm trying to wean myself off soft drinks again.

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

You have used many words and with all of it jumbled all together it sounds very scary and intimidating...


BUT

Most of what you are saying it not at all as alarming as you make it out to be, if you understand the basic principles behind how NicSalts work

ALL Nice salts are acidic.
Acidity makes it easier to ingest vaporized nic as it removes the throat hit
Improving nicotine absorption is more a function of vapour pressure than PH.
Aldamine is actually very srable at high temps, making it a pretty good option for vaporization ( but i will be the first to admit that i know very little about it and will not comment until i know more)

So most of this is not unique to cheap chinese disposables...

Do I agree that Chinese manufacturers will cut corners wherever they can? ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY!!

But... In my honest opinion, I do not feel like the information you presented is particularly revealing or damaging... At least not if no substantiating information is provided to definitely illustrate the harm this causes... Most of the information is what is commonly known in terms of gow nicotine salts work and as for the sweeteners... Like i said I'll comment once I know more about them... Just because they have long chemical names does not mean they are harmful

Dihydrogen Oxide is a good example of this.

With respect zandernwn, methinks you missed the point of my post, which was on masking nicotine in disposables, however as you've raised it, and, as I've posted previously on the subject, herewith;

Yes Nic salts are acidic, (hence the name ... Salts in chemistry are acids), and yes, they are not only "easier" to inhale, but also that their reuptake is substantially quicker and more efficient, so much so, that blood nicotine levels of 2mg/ml of Nicotine Salts are much the same as FreeBase Nicotine at 12mg/ml, (which it just so happens, is much the same as an an average "full strength" cigarette).
Juul not only discovered this process, but were also the first to commercially abuse it, (and patent it too mind you), and they were caught out on their deceit and prosecuted for same ... The Chinese / Disposable companies however have taken this to new heights ... but back to my story;

Juul took advantage of both the heightened reuptake and lessened throat hit sure, and they provided Nicotine Salts at some 10 to 12mg/ml concentration, (remembering that 2mg/ml of Salts is equal to 12mg/ml of Freebase on reuptake), and we know what happened to Juul once they were caught out for pushing levels five times higher than freebase and or the average full strength cigarette.

Bring on Chinese Disposables, and the model has been pushed even further, Juuls 10 to 12 mg/ml has become 50mg/ml, and the deceit has gone to new heights ... Not only are they using enhanced sweeteners and higher concentrations of flavours to mask the reintroduction of a throat hit at five times higher levels than Juul managed, but they have further lowered the pH of the juices they use, (ie. made it more acidic), to lessen the throat irritation, whilst increasing the reuptake to levels never seen before ... What a wonderful, (spelt deceitful), business model ... Overload the olfactory with wonderful flavours, with nicotine hidden from same, and get the vaper addicted as quickly as possible ...

One needs to ask why? to which the answer is fairly obvious ... the higher Disposable Manufacturers can push the nicotine levels without you realising that you're even having any ... the quicker / easier they get you addicted / entrenched as a customer, (a similar business model to what Juul followed, only that they've raised the bar), and that my friend is the point, and for the record ... THEY ARE HARMFUL, to which all information referenced in this post is in the public domain ...
If their intentions were indeed honorable, and it was all about fulfilling a desire as apposed creating an addiction driven need, (or even the original reason for vapes, namely harm REDUCTION / smoking cessation), then why the need for such high levels of nicotine, and; Why try so desperately to hide it with super concentrated flavours and sweeteners?

 

[Chickenstrip]

l-α-aspartyl-N-(2,2,4,4-tetramethyl-3-thioethanyl)-d-alaninamide, (Alitame).

Is this available in concentrate form? Where can I get this?

I have done away with disposables. But I really miss the sweetness and all the regular sweeteners gunk up my coils to the point where I just dont use them anymore. I'm already inhaling a billion and 3 chemicals so I'm not much bothered by the potential effects. Much like most people who happily inhale diacetyl.

 

[Chickenstrip]

Neotame, (3S)-3-[(3,3-Dimethylbutyl)amino]-4-{[(2S)-1-methoxy-1-oxo-3-phenylpropan-2-yl]amino}-4-oxobutanoic acid

Or this

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

Is this available in concentrate form? Where can I get this?

I have done away with disposables. But I really miss the sweetness and all the regular sweeteners gunk up my coils to the point where I just dont use them anymore. I'm already inhaling a billion and 3 chemicals so I'm not much bothered by the potential effects. Much like most people who happily inhale diacetyl.

Wits source chemicals from industrial and pharmaceutical suppliers. Samples for Alimame and Neotame were sourced from Pfizer and BOC Sciences respectfully. There are a number of manufacturers bringing it into SA, however I'm not sure that either is available in the retail market, save to say that it's a business opportunity for someone to import some raws in bulk, mix it up with Propylene Glycol and or compress it into tablet form for commercial consumption?

 

[Chickenstrip]

Definitely! I wonder if @Nick Black would be interested?