What is High End Gear? Is it worth it?

[Paulie]

Hey all,

So i have had alot of people ask me this question.

Over the next few days i will be explaining a few things here to maby help clarify a few things

1) What is HE?
For a lot of people they first think that it is vape gear thats just got a massive price tag on it? In a way this is true as some of the gear being sold can be sold at a crazy amount of say $4000! But since i have started to get to understand this side of the industry i am starting to see that its not only about the price but also being in the right group or just catching a great deal on a new or old product! For example the USA and Europe have created groups where people can join and then ask to be added to build lists for new products. What makes it difficult is getting into the groups and also making it onto the build lists as the demand is massive! So it is possible to get HE products at a reasonable price considering you are in the right group at the right time i have seen. The HE groups is a whole new world of underground vaping that i think that one of the reasons it is there is due to the issues people are having with the FDA and other organisations that are trying to stop us from Vaping! A simple way to look at this is (High Demannd + Low Supply = Increased price on goods being sold second hand or new)

2) HE Products?
This is simple as you generally find massive innovation linked to high quality products that are being made out of expensive material on a smaller scale. a good example of this is we see alot of products being made out of stablised wood with metals like Damascus and Tamascus steel in them.

I will add more topics here as we go i am keen to hear people thoughts on the above Hope this helps

 

[craigb]

thanks @Paulie, looking forward to this.

I've seen @Rob Fisher talking about his HE orders, and yes, he raves about the stuff, but I still wonder - why? Apart from what you say about being in the right group at the right time, I'm assuming the HE stuff is going to be more expensive to some degree. If you were somehow able to quantify the vaping experience (VE), would HE gear be worth the $:VE ratio?

So for example, if regular gear gives you a $1:VE1 experience, does high end gear improve that to a $1:VE2 ratio, or at least maintain parity, or does the VE slowly level out as you go into HE?

Long and short of it, for your general populace (average Joe Vape) is it worth saving that little bit longer to buy HE kit instead of shopping regular kit sooner? Is it akin to buying a 2L engine car instead of a 1600 of the same model? Or are we talking about choosing between a Polo and a Z4, or even a Maserati?

 

[Clouds4Days]

thanks @Paulie, looking forward to this.

I've seen @Rob Fisher talking about his HE orders, and yes, he raves about the stuff, but I still wonder - why? Apart from what you say about being in the right group at the right time, I'm assuming the HE stuff is going to be more expensive to some degree. If you were somehow able to quantify the vaping experience (VE), would HE gear be worth the $:VE ratio?

So for example, if regular gear gives you a $1:VE1 experience, does high end gear improve that to a $1:VE2 ratio, or at least maintain parity, or does the VE slowly level out as you go into HE?

Long and short of it, for your general populace (average Joe Vape) is it worth saving that little bit longer to buy HE kit instead of shopping regular kit sooner? Is it akin to buying a 2L engine car instead of a 1600 of the same model? Or are we talking about choosing between a Polo and a Z4, or even a Maserati?

With Mods i think its not worth saving and waiting for. The only thing HE in a HE mod is the shell because they all come fitted with a dna200 or sx350j v2 chip and those only cost $70 so you paying for the shell and a logo (basically a maserati body with a Z4 engine )

 

[Paulie]

thanks @Paulie, looking forward to this.

I've seen @Rob Fisher talking about his HE orders, and yes, he raves about the stuff, but I still wonder - why? Apart from what you say about being in the right group at the right time, I'm assuming the HE stuff is going to be more expensive to some degree. If you were somehow able to quantify the vaping experience (VE), would HE gear be worth the $:VE ratio?

So for example, if regular gear gives you a $1:VE1 experience, does high end gear improve that to a $1:VE2 ratio, or at least maintain parity, or does the VE slowly level out as you go into HE?

Long and short of it, for your general populace (average Joe Vape) is it worth saving that little bit longer to buy HE kit instead of shopping regular kit sooner? Is it akin to buying a 2L engine car instead of a 1600 of the same model? Or are we talking about choosing between a Polo and a Z4, or even a Maserati?

Great question! This is actually the most important question as alot of people would like to know if the experience is improved alot when buying such products!

Lets break it down like this:
1) Vape Quality (When it comes to this there is a difference in the vape quality when looking at RDA' RTA's and now we starting to see it in mods also)
RDA and RTAS: There massive innovation on this side where i do get more flavour from the HE products i have recently puchased. How much? Well we talking around 10-30% max better flavour in terms of the juices i am used to vaping i am noticing the elements in my juices are either smoother or more pronounced. Also with help of the latest coils compined with low power vaping its interesting to see how much it all changes.

Mods - Well this one you wont see a massive change as most of them use Yihi or DNA boards in them which can be found in the commercial products however i recent got a Dicode Board from Germany in one of my new HE mods and i am really enjoying the vape on it.


2) Product Quality - This is what HE is mostly about as the products you get are so well made and also the materials are alot nicer and need i say it but eye catching .

3) Value for money - I think for us South Africans it is difficult as our exchange rate is so bad so we paying alot more for products than rest of the world .

So an easy way to look at it is if you buy a car and the car gets you from A to B then why do you need to have a Ferrari? I for one have been vaping for almost 3 years now and am always wanting new gear and goodies as i love this industry and am always looking for the best vape! Do you really need a HE device? No! The commercial products are excellent and i still use alot of them myself!!

Hope this helps.

 

[BubiSparks]

As with anything high end, the law of diminishing returns applies. A R10 000 setup will not vape 10 times better than a R1000 setup - rather 5 or 10% better. It's the materials used and man-hours required that push up the price.

In my book HE applies to anything of high quality, that is not mass produced, and has intrinsic value due to an artisan or craftsman manufacturing the item.

Don't worry - No-one gets left out - Just get a @hands drip tip and you're in the club

 

[Clouds4Days]

Great question! This is actually the most important question as alot of people would like to know if the experience is improved alot when buying such products!

Lets break it down like this:
1) Vape Quality (When it comes to this there is a difference in the vape quality when looking at RDA' RTA's and now we starting to see it in mods also)
RDA and RTAS: There massive innovation on this side where i do get more flavour from the HE products i have recently puchased. How much? Well we talking around 10-30% max better flavour in terms of the juices i am used to vaping i am noticing the elements in my juices are either smoother or more pronounced. Also with help of the latest coils compined with low power vaping its interesting to see how much it all changes.

Mods - Well this one you wont see a massive change as most of them use Yihi or DNA boards in them which can be found in the commercial products however i recent got a Dicode Board from Germany in one of my new HE mods and i am really enjoying the vape on it.


2) Product Quality - This is what HE is mostly about as the products you get are so well made and also the materials are alot nicer and need i say it but eye catching .

3) Value for money - I think for us South Africans it is difficult as our exchange rate is so bad so we paying alot more for products than rest of the world .

So an easy way to look at it is if you buy a car and the car gets you from A to B then why do you need to have a Ferrari? I for one have been vaping for almost 3 years now and am always wanting new gear and goodies as i love this industry and am always looking for the best vape! Do you really need a HE device? No! The commercial products are excellent and i still use alot of them myself!!

Hope this helps.

Nice Write up ther @Paulie
I think this is very helpful to the community.

As i see alot of people including myself see all this high end gear and start calculating $500 for mod, $200 for tank
Total $700

In all essence all you really need to get a better vape is the tank.

But the Mods without a doubt are beautiful pieces of art.

 

[craigb]

Just get a @hands drip tip and you're in the club

That is soooo on the to buy list already.

Well we talking around 10-30% max better flavour

That is actually a substantial improvement. And it breaks away from the car comparison, because Ferrari's are technically limited to the same speed laws as cortina's - hence the extra price is less warranted. But that much improvement in experience on a vape, along with the aesthetics improvement, does then leave one inclined to save that little bit longer for the better product.

so you paying for the shell and a logo

Agreed, although some of those shells are sooooo awesomely beautiful, that the uniqueness bumps up the implied value to the individual user. I suppose "commerical" mods, tanks, accessories are there to meet your basic needs. While HE is there to cover the needs, tickle your wants with the side effect of being able to expect better build quality and experience. So Steers vs Roco Mama's?

 

[Silver]

Thanks for starting this thread @Paulie and making the effort to explain some of this.
Am finding it very interesting

I find it fascinating how the vaping journey can be so different for different vapers:

• Some (like my dear wife) have been vaping on the exact same mod, clearo and juice for over a year and they are happy. No need to make things complicated. It must just work and it replaces cigarettes. Done.

• Others enjoy sampling all the gear and have a softness for mods. Others prefer using the same mods and vary the tanks.

• Some get more involved in building exotic coils - while others spend massive time on DIY and perfecting their own recipes.

• Some do all of the above in varying degrees.

I suppose some vapers then want something else. Perhaps to have a mod or a tank that is of higher quality than the more readily available gear. Perhaps also the attraction of having something that is hard to get. And also chasing an improved vape experience. I guess this is where HE comes in.

 

[Yagya]

Nicely said there @Silver.
My HE mod (joe soap he) is the V2 Raw. It does every so much better than the previous mods I owned.

 

[Silver]

Nicely said there @Silver.
My HE mod (joe soap he) is the V2 Raw. It does every so much better than the previous mods I owned.

Lol, when I got my HotCig 150 with the abalone plates - I thought I was really rocking it big time!!!
At least the driptip is high end!

 

[craigb]

At least the driptip is high end!

Yes, it's on the high end of the device

 

[Huffapuff]

TL/DR, but I think HE gear moves beyond the simple dollar value of the product and ventures more into the collector/connoisseur territory. Here people are prepared to pay a premium for rare items that aren't easily available.

Just think of how excited you get when browsing for a new mod or atty online - now imagine that experience in a small, hard-to-get-into clique where you have greater personal control over the creation of your own unique item. Then the wait for it to arrive, the unboxing, the tinkering and of course the pictures posted to the vape mail thread

I think that's more of what HE is about - the appeal of something special and unique that the average vaper can't get their hands on.

 

[Rob Fisher]

The Law of diminishing returns certainly applies here and the cost of HE vs normal does not translate to the percentage improvement.

But the fact I now have a tank that does not leak... not even one drop ever after nearly a 100 refills makes it worth the cost. Not one tank (well one that produces a half decent vape) in all the tanks I have owned and played with cannot boast that fact. And the fact that it's the best vape (albeit a small improvement) I have had on a tank makes it worth it.

Am I going to be as lucky with the other HE stuff I get? I certainly hope so... will my HE Mods on the way vape better than a normal 350J V2 commercial mod? No it won't... it should vape exactly the same... but will it be a piece of art created in very limited quantities by a master craftsman... it sure will!

 

[craigb]

Lol, when I got my HotCig 150 with the abalone plates - I thought I was really rocking it big time!!!
At least the driptip is high end!

It all makes sense now

 

[Silver]

Lol @craigb !

Anyway, I was just so proud when I posted that pic - I thought, now I have the gear that not only is high quality but looks good and performs nicely!

And now look what's happened....
Average and low end gear....

hehe

At least I have the drip tip!

 

[Deckie]

Lol @craigb !

Anyway, I was just so proud when I posted that pic - I thought, now I have the gear that not only is high quality but looks good and performs nicely!

And now look what's happened....
Average and low end gear....

hehe

At least I have the drip tip!

@Rob Fisher used to say -"If it can't take a @hands drip tip then it's a deal breaker".

 

[Scissorhands]

Lol, when I got my HotCig 150 with the abalone plates - I thought I was really rocking it big time!!!
At least the driptip is high end!

Off topic/ Good day @Silver , have you ever considered swoping out your SM25's O rings for the blue ones? This would greatly suppress my OCD . Cheers

 

[Rob Fisher]

@Rob Fisher used to say -"If it can't take a @hands drip tip then it's a deal breaker".

That's still a deal breaker... but happily @hands is already working on drip tips for my Skyline and my Hussar's!

 

[M5000]

@Silver that is a superb looking setup!

High end anything is a similar story, if you get it you will understand it and appreciate it, and if you don't then it won't make sense to you. The man with the stabilised wood dna mod and the Rolex is having the same vape and seeing the same time as the guy with the unstabilised plastic dna mod and the Casio, but there are always differences and often you can only see them on close inspection at which point you will probably either say wow or wth. I think at this point other than accuracy to 1/10000th second or whatever, it should be understood that like an expensive watch thst won't make you live longer or give you an extra hour in your day, HE gear is more about the passion and uniqueness and attention to detail than being some magical vape. So this discussion can be more about identifying and definining the concept and clarifying the criteria instead of justifying it.

Anyway just my thoughts since I often see people questioning the 'need' for it. There is no 'need' for it, that ship has sailed, this place should be more about showcasing and appreciating and admiring the HE gear.

So qualification-wise, what production number would be appropriate? 1 of 100 or like 1 of 1500? I have no idea about the numbers of limited productions.

 

[Huffapuff]

it should be understood that like an expensive watch thst won't make you live longer or give you an extra hour in your day

I like that Well said.

 

[incredible_hullk]

Lol, when I got my HotCig 150 with the abalone plates - I thought I was really rocking it big time!!!
At least the driptip is high end!

call me shallow @Silver but to me HE must be sexy and that is sexy right there

 

[incredible_hullk]

to me HE is about being an individual like wearing a tailored suit with a mont blanc in pocket and breitling on wrist. its not abt how others feel abt it but how u as a person feel abt it, the emotions that it provides.

is it worth the money - 1 HE for sure with the provisio but it must tick (usability, portability and flavour) all the boxes and i must keep it forever.

maynot be HE to others but to me my leprechaun is HE as thats how it makes me feel.

 

[Petrus]

HE gear for me is atty's, for I am a squonker. The Snapdragon and Odis for example is out of this world, and yes, you can't buy it at a local vendor because of supply and demand. A P67 IMO is high end, at this point in time it is more difficult to lay your hands on a P67 than a Stab Wood, in fact it is quite easy to get a SVA. So yes, I like the HE game. I know we both got 2.0 litre turbo diesel engines, but I just love the extras of my Maserati, but you are very happy with your BMW. Vape on Gentlemen and be happy.

 

[Viper_SA]

Don't crucify me here, but does an authentic Odin vape better than a clone Odin, in my book; NO. Does it last longer, with better screws? Sometimes. Can I buy 10 clones instead of an authentic? Most times. Will the authentic outlast the clone? Maybe, but by the time the clone breaks, 10 new drippers will be available, all supposedly better. I bet a lot of you are hitting Google right about now to see what the hell an Odin is. To me HE is all about bling bling. You like it, you pay for it. You think it's crazy, you skip it. I draw the line at R2k for a mod. It's still an electronic thingy, and we all know they never last forever. Think how screwed we'd all be if someone changed the threads or size of a 510 to force us to buy new gear..... I will however pay much much more for sounds systems, swords, rifles etc, but my salary doesn't allow for it. Which is why I do my best tonlove the things I have, and not not have the things I love.

 

[incredible_hullk]

and heres the other thing - i quit stinkies for 2 things: cost and health. HE stuff negates the cost saving and in fact makes it much more expensive