Vaping Legislation RSA

[aktorsyl]

One has to read the wording very carefully. Take that flavour one, for example:

Section 9 (d) (ii)
"the prohibition of any substance or ingredient that creates a specified flavor [sic], smell or effect on the consumer"

The word "specified" is very important in that. It implies that there is a specific flavour they're thinking of, and anticipating banning. I would say, in this case, that it's menthol. The EU has banned menthol from 2020, parts of the US and Canada have and will as well. I'm guessing SA will follow suit and they are laying the groundwork for that regulation now. That they add the words "or effect" also leads me to believe that it's menthol. Menthol doesn't just have a taste and smell, it has an effect on the vaper - it cools your mouth and throat. Of course, "or effect" also covers weed.

If the wording had read:

Section 9 (d) (ii)
"the prohibition of any substance or ingredient that creates any food-related flavor [sic], smell or effect on the consumer"

Then you could get really worried. Because then it implies that they're looking at the whole gamut of flavours that we use.

Yes, but again - if there's no nicotine in the juice, it cannot fall under the scope of this legislation. So that part doesn't worry me too much.
I agree that it's likely to be menthol they're after. Probably not weed. I'm sure nobody that uses that is doing so for the taste.

 

[Hooked]

@Raindance - the full sections is more concerning to me:

"(5) No person shall sell, offer for sale, supply. distribute or

buy a relevant product through the postal services, the Internet or any other

electronic medium. or by any other remote means."

Does that mean one will only be able to buy in a B&M store?


@RichJB - expectantly looking up to you again.

@RenaldoRheeder That is how I understand it. I posted a comment about my concern before seeing yours. It's truly a BIG concern - and especially for you. I at least have one vape shop (Juicy Joes) and if I'm desperate enough I could drive to Vape Cartel on the other side of town. But you ... you'd have to get your family to visit you often and smuggle stuff through!

 

[RichJB]

Strawberry cheesecake flavour - and all other flavours - may well be prohibited in the future. The FDA wants to ban flavours and if they do SA could follow suit. Perhaps that's the reason for that clause - they know something we don't.

That entire section appears under the heading "Standardised packaging and labeling of tobacco products". It is not referring to the juice or its constituent parts, only the labeling and packaging. So even if strawberry cheesecake flavouring was banned, that section doesn't say that you can't put strawberry cheesecake flavour in your juice - only that you cannot give the impression on the label or packaging, via words, graphics, colours, shapes or numbers, that it tastes like strawberry cheesecake. Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense but still.

 

[Hooked]

One has to read the wording very carefully. Take that flavour one, for example:

Section 9 (d) (ii)
"the prohibition of any substance or ingredient that creates a specified flavor [sic], smell or effect on the consumer"

The word "specified" is very important in that. It implies that there is a specific flavour they're thinking of, and anticipating banning. I would say, in this case, that it's menthol. The EU has banned menthol from 2020, parts of the US and Canada have and will as well. I'm guessing SA will follow suit and they are laying the groundwork for that regulation now. That they add the words "or effect" also leads me to believe that it's menthol. Menthol doesn't just have a taste and smell, it has an effect on the vaper - it cools your mouth and throat. Of course, "or effect" also covers weed.

If the wording had read:

Section 9 (d) (ii)
"the prohibition of any substance or ingredient that creates any food-related flavor [sic], smell or effect on the consumer"

Then you could get really worried. Because then it implies that they're looking at the whole gamut of flavours that we use.

What is wrong with menthol? I don't like it, but I'm curious as to why it would be banned.

 

[Hooked]

And competitions might be prohibited too.

 

[Hooked]

 

[RichJB]

What is wrong with menthol? I don't like it, but I'm curious as to why it would be banned.

There are two main reasons afaik. The first is that menthol cools and smooths a harsh tobacco vape, making it easier for children and those who aren't accustomed to smoking. I think there is something in that. I remember from my school days that the proportion of kids who smoked menthol was higher than among adult smokers. I guess it is an easy and tasty way to get into tobacco.

The other reason was some study they did which concluded that those who regularly smoke menthol cigs find it harder to quit. I think there may also be medical concerns that menthol does more damage. I remember Maciej Goniewicz saying in his testing that menthol killed a lot more cells than many other vaping flavours does.

Interestingly, the drive to ban menthol in the US has hit a speed bump. Apparently an unusually high ratio of African-Americans choose to smoke menthol brands. The reaction of some has been that the proposed menthol ban is specifically targeting and punishing them. So some of the authorities are now less keen to push ahead with it.

 

[aktorsyl]

View attachment 131548

Why did they decide to call it "spork" instead of "fpoon"?

 

[Hooked]

That entire section appears under the heading "Standardised packaging and labeling of tobacco products". It is not referring to the juice or its constituent parts, only the labeling and packaging. So even if strawberry cheesecake flavouring was banned, that section doesn't say that you can't put strawberry cheesecake flavour in your juice - only that you cannot give the impression on the label
or packaging, via words, graphics, colours, shapes or numbers, that it tastes like strawberry cheesecake. Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense but still.

Ah I can see everyone playing Charades.

 

[JakesSA]

The requirement for devices to comply to some 'standard' is effectively opening the door to banning the import of practically all devices since the costs of proving such compliance will be prohibitive to all but perhaps a few. For those who may be able to afford to prove compliance, it is likely those products will be re-branded OEM style to protect the investment in proving compliance. Pricing will skyrocket and selection will be severely restricted.

Forget about the distinction of non-nicotine vs nicotine containing e-liquids. A '0 mg' label will not suffice should the state decide to prosecute a perceived infraction, the onus to prove the liquid actually contains no-nicotine will be on the seller/public. Seeing as both variants are likely made at the same place is anyone willing to gamble that the '0 mg' liquid in reality does not contain trace amounts of nicotine?

 

[JakesSA]

Concerning advertising it is rather ludicrous. Direct outcomes include no income stream for this forum, no VapeCon, 'blank shops' for vaping, no discounts on any product to be displayed, no vape bars to name a few. On the positive side .. no more spam emails!!

In fact, considering the 'brand sharing and stretching' definition, since most vape shops have 'vape' in their names, these shops may not even be able display their business titles anymore.

Vape shop of the future?

 

[vicTor]

Herewith a copy of my comment which will be mailed to Chief Director Lynn Moen-Mahlangu in the morning:

Dear Chief Director Moen-Mahlangu

I am writing this to deliver comment on the Government Notice No. 475 of 9 May 2018: "Invitation for public comment on the Draft Control of Tobacco Products and Electronic Delivery Systems Bill, 2018".

I smoked 15 cigarettes a day for 37 of my 55 years of life so far. On 3 January 2016, I smoked my last cigarette and switched thereafter to the use of ENDS, or vaping as we call it. I have enjoyed a dramatic improvement in my health over the past two years. During my final year of smoking, I could not lie or sleep on my left-hand side due to discomfort in my chest. I coughed persistently, was often short of breath, had little energy, and suffered chilblains on my hands in winter due to poor circulation. All of these symptoms have disappeared since I started vaping. I can sleep comfortably on either side, the cough has vanished, I breathe more easily and have more energy, my sense of smell and taste has returned, and I no longer suffer chilblains.

I consider myself fortunate that I had the foresight to switch to a far less harmful form of nicotine use. I consider myself doubly fortunate that I live in Johannesburg, where several vaping retailers are a short drive from my home. Many thousands of smokers who made the same health decision that I did are not so fortunate, and live in small towns with no vaping retailers. They have no choice but to order their vaping equipment and consumables online, and to have them delivered by courier services.

I draw attention to paragraph 5 of section 8: Prohibitions in respect of tobacco products and electronic delivery systems:

"No person shall sell, offer for sale, supply, distribute or buy a relevant product through the postal services, the internet or any other electronic medium, or by any other remote means."

I understand the logic behind this regulation. It is an age-restricted product, online sales present an obvious loophole to allow minors to access tobacco. I can see the sense in prohibiting cigarette sales online. The cigarette industry is very well established, their distribution network extends to the smallest cafe or filling station in the smallest towns in the country. So there is no need for a smoker to order cigarettes online. Even the residents of small rural settlements are able to access cigarettes in their communities.

However, this does not apply to ENDS. As an emerging technology, vaping has far fewer retail outlets and very limited presence in traditional tobacco outlets such as filling stations, cafes and supermarkets. Although the industry is expanding and new outlets are opening regularly, this growth is largely confined to the major urban centres. For the tens of thousands of South Africans who have turned to a less harmful alternative, their internet connection to their vaping supplier is a figurative lifeline. If that connection is severed and prohibited by law, I foresee a grave risk that they will revert to the nicotine source that is most readily available to them - cigarettes.

While there is an imperative to protect the youth, I would think that there is an equal imperative to support the many more mature ex-smokers who made the health-conscious decision to reject cigarette smoking. They are dependent on the delivery of ENDS products purchased online to keep them off cigarettes. How does denying them that lifeline reconcile with the medical ethos of "first, do no harm"? Encouraging ex-smokers to return to cigarette smoking, even unwittingly, is surely the very essence of harm.

There must surely be a legal mechanism, such as requiring courier companies to verify the age of customers to whom they deliver ENDS, which would satisfy the twin goals of preventing minors from accessing ENDS while allowing ex-smokers to continue to improve their health through online access to this harm-reduction product? As it stands, the regulation seems willing to sacrifice the health of many mature ex-smokers in order to protect the health of young never-smokers. I don't believe that is a choice that we have to make. We can act in a way that serves the interests of both groups and, thereby, the health interests of the entire nation.

Sincerely, etc. "

Well, that is the general gist, I'll probably tweak a bit before mailling. But I think we need to make our voices heard. That is what the public comments phase is for.

thank you @RichJB

 

[JakesSA]

Looks a bit bleak doesn't it? Make your voice heard .. https://vpasa.org.za/index.php/vaping-testimonials/

Perhaps the forum admins can advertise the pending legislation and this link in as many places as possible on the forum?

 

[jm10]

Looks a bit bleak doesn't it? Make your voice heard .. https://vpasa.org.za/index.php/vaping-testimonials/

Perhaps the forum admins can advertise the pending legislation and this link in as many places as possible on the forum?

Maybe you business owners can get togethers and put your voice forward, Maybe a huge ad on a billboard in each province voicing yourself, Making it as public as possible? I doubt our forum represents a tenth of the vapers in the country so we will have a very small impact if any


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[Adephi]

Herewith a copy of my comment which will be mailed to Chief Director Lynn Moen-Mahlangu in the morning:

Dear Chief Director Moen-Mahlangu

I am writing this to deliver comment on the Government Notice No. 475 of 9 May 2018: "Invitation for public comment on the Draft Control of Tobacco Products and Electronic Delivery Systems Bill, 2018".

I smoked 15 cigarettes a day for 37 of my 55 years of life so far. On 3 January 2016, I smoked my last cigarette and switched thereafter to the use of ENDS, or vaping as we call it. I have enjoyed a dramatic improvement in my health over the past two years. During my final year of smoking, I could not lie or sleep on my left-hand side due to discomfort in my chest. I coughed persistently, was often short of breath, had little energy, and suffered chilblains on my hands in winter due to poor circulation. All of these symptoms have disappeared since I started vaping. I can sleep comfortably on either side, the cough has vanished, I breathe more easily and have more energy, my sense of smell and taste has returned, and I no longer suffer chilblains.

I consider myself fortunate that I had the foresight to switch to a far less harmful form of nicotine use. I consider myself doubly fortunate that I live in Johannesburg, where several vaping retailers are a short drive from my home. Many thousands of smokers who made the same health decision that I did are not so fortunate, and live in small towns with no vaping retailers. They have no choice but to order their vaping equipment and consumables online, and to have them delivered by courier services.

I draw attention to paragraph 5 of section 8: Prohibitions in respect of tobacco products and electronic delivery systems:

"No person shall sell, offer for sale, supply, distribute or buy a relevant product through the postal services, the internet or any other electronic medium, or by any other remote means."

I understand the logic behind this regulation. It is an age-restricted product, online sales present an obvious loophole to allow minors to access tobacco. I can see the sense in prohibiting cigarette sales online. The cigarette industry is very well established, their distribution network extends to the smallest cafe or filling station in the smallest towns in the country. So there is no need for a smoker to order cigarettes online. Even the residents of small rural settlements are able to access cigarettes in their communities.

However, this does not apply to ENDS. As an emerging technology, vaping has far fewer retail outlets and very limited presence in traditional tobacco outlets such as filling stations, cafes and supermarkets. Although the industry is expanding and new outlets are opening regularly, this growth is largely confined to the major urban centres. For the tens of thousands of South Africans who have turned to a less harmful alternative, their internet connection to their vaping supplier is a figurative lifeline. If that connection is severed and prohibited by law, I foresee a grave risk that they will revert to the nicotine source that is most readily available to them - cigarettes.

While there is an imperative to protect the youth, I would think that there is an equal imperative to support the many more mature ex-smokers who made the health-conscious decision to reject cigarette smoking. They are dependent on the delivery of ENDS products purchased online to keep them off cigarettes. How does denying them that lifeline reconcile with the medical ethos of "first, do no harm"? Encouraging ex-smokers to return to cigarette smoking, even unwittingly, is surely the very essence of harm.

There must surely be a legal mechanism, such as requiring courier companies to verify the age of customers to whom they deliver ENDS, which would satisfy the twin goals of preventing minors from accessing ENDS while allowing ex-smokers to continue to improve their health through online access to this harm-reduction product? As it stands, the regulation seems willing to sacrifice the health of many mature ex-smokers in order to protect the health of young never-smokers. I don't believe that is a choice that we have to make. We can act in a way that serves the interests of both groups and, thereby, the health interests of the entire nation.

Sincerely, etc. "

Well, that is the general gist, I'll probably tweak a bit before mailling. But I think we need to make our voices heard. That is what the public comments phase is for.

This is great @RichJB .

Do you mind sharing the e-mail we can use to send similar stories. Maybe with at least 10 e-mails giving similar testimonies will have a better effect.

 

[JakesSA]

Maybe you business owners can get togethers and put your voice forward, Maybe a huge ad on a billboard in each province voicing yourself, Making it as public as possible? I doubt our forum represents a tenth of the vapers in the country so we will have a very small impact if any


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I'd be up for that, any other vape shops willing to take up this challenge?

I would also propose a 'kick starter' type fund raiser to prepare the war chest to challenge this legislation.

The problem is that from an 'outsiders' point of view especially those of a non-vaper this legislation seems reasonable, as can even be witnessed in some of the replies on this thread. The reality is any legislation subject to non existing standards and declarations that may be made by a politician at some point in the future is just plain idiotic. It may be worthwhile contacting the political ward representatives. Such an action, en masse, may have an impact.

In my opinion chances are good this legislation will pass as is and will have to be challenged thereafter. Make no mistake however, the impact is far reaching and will affect all of the vaping community drastically.

 

[jm10]

I'd be up for that, any other vape shops willing to take up this challenge?

I would also propose a 'kick starter' type fund raiser to prepare the war chest to challenge this legislation.

The problem is that from an 'outsiders' point of view especially those of a non-vaper this legislation seems reasonable, as can even be witnessed in some of the replies on this thread. The reality is any legislation subject to non existing standards and declarations that may be made by a politician at some point in the future is just plain idiotic. It may be worthwhile contacting the political ward representatives. Such an action, en masse, may have an impact.

In my opinion chances are good this legislation will pass as is and will have to be challenged thereafter. Make no mistake however, the impact is far reaching and will affect all of the vaping community drastically.

I would contribute to that kick starter and contributing towards you guys funding a ad type campaign.

And i agree on this passing but I’m always in for fighting the good fight till the end.


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[vicTor]

this has depressed me and my puff counter has spiked considerably !!

 

[KarlDP]

Noob question. So what will happen to online stores? As online ordering and trading of cigarettes is prohibited. Will they enforce that on vaping as well then?

 

[GerritVisagie]

Noob question. So what will happen to online stores? As online ordering and trading of cigarettes is prohibited. Will they enforce that on vaping as well then?

Yes, all online trading will be prohibited as Vaping products will fall under tobacco products.



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[vicTor]

Here is the direct link if anyone wants it: http://www.gpwonline.co.za/Gazettes/Gazettes/41617_9-5_Health.pdf

@Moerse Rooikat

 

[zadiac]

If they ban vaping in SA. I'll still vape. No matter what they do, I'll still vape. The changing of the labelling system on the juices won't affect us that much. I DIY, so I'm good. If I have to smuggle nicotine into the country, I'll do that. No matter what, I'll vape.

 

[vicTor]

If they ban vaping in SA. I'll still vape. No matter what they do, I'll still vape. The changing of the labelling system on the juices won't affect us that much. I DIY, so I'm good. If I have to smuggle nicotine into the country, I'll do that. No matter what, I'll vape.

I'm with you, we'll take vaping "underground" and stick it to the man !!!

 

[Moerse Rooikat]

If they ban vaping in SA. I'll still vape. No matter what they do, I'll still vape. The changing of the labelling system on the juices won't affect us that much. I DIY, so I'm good. If I have to smuggle nicotine into the country, I'll do that. No matter what, I'll vape.

we need to start now. how we can do it who has a speed bout i am thinking bad boys 1 tape of drop

 

[RichJB]

This is great @RichJB .

Do you mind sharing the e-mail we can use to send similar stories. Maybe with at least 10 e-mails giving similar testimonies will have a better effect.

The Chief Director's details are in the Govt Gazette document, on the cover page signed by the Minister. It is:

Ms Lynn Moen-Mahlangu (they spell it Mahalngu in the document but I suspect that is a typo)
Chief Director: Health Promotion, Nutrition, Oral Health and Food Control
lynn.moeng@health.gov.za