Vaping Legislation RSA

[Adephi]

We should present some stats to them:

VAPING IS SAFER THAN PEANUTS

View attachment 131637

That won't help one bit. The court cases around cannabis used tonnes of stats and those laws are still where it was 50 years ago.

There is a sence of pride involved. Once they made a statement or made up their minds about something they won't change.

I'm currently thinking of lowering my nic concentrations. Slowly weaning myself off of vape just incase the pawpaw hits fan.

 

[aktorsyl]

so as to catch all of us sneaky vapers who will no doubt go to the restrooms in malls for a quickie!

Wait, they're banning that too? I thought they'd stick to just banning vaping

 

[Hooked]

That won't help one bit. The court cases around cannabis used tonnes of stats and those laws are still where it was 50 years ago.

There is a sence of pride involved. Once they made a statement or made up their minds about something they won't change.

I'm currently thinking of lowering my nic concentrations. Slowly weaning myself off of vape just incase the pawpaw hits fan.

@Adephi I like that you're lowering your nic, but why wean yourself off vaping altogether just because of the proposed laws? Perhaps you had been thinking about it anyway? We'll still be able to buy mods and juice - but perhaps not online.

 

[Anvil]

Wait, they're banning that too? I thought they'd stick to just banning vaping

If they go this far my bags are packed and I'm outta here.

 

[RichJB]

I'm currently thinking of lowering my nic concentrations.

Ditto. Not because I'm worried about regulation, as a DIYer I can get around that very easily. But I want to be free of nicotine dependence. My main reason for quitting smoking wasn't concerns about my health, it was irritation that being an addict forced me to go out and buy cigarettes even when I didn't want to. I've cut to 2mg now and 1mg is the next step. I really want to get to a point where vaping is optional.

As a DIYer, I can't really cut down to 2ml of juice a day, my concentrates and juices would last too long and I wouldn't be able to mix enough to merit DIYing. So the next best is to maintain a relatively high juice throughput but with almost no nic in it.

 

[RenaldoRheeder]

Wait, they're banning that too? I thought they'd stick to just banning vaping

Sent by iDad's iPhone

 

[aktorsyl]

Ditto. Not because I'm worried about regulation, as a DIYer I can get around that very easily. But I want to be free of nicotine dependence. My main reason for quitting smoking wasn't concerns about my health, it was irritation that being an addict forced me to go out and buy cigarettes even when I didn't want to. I've cut to 2mg now and 1mg is the next step. I really want to get to a point where vaping is optional.

As a DIYer, I can't really cut down to 2ml of juice a day, my concentrates and juices would last too long and I wouldn't be able to mix enough to merit DIYing. So the next best is to maintain a relatively high juice throughput but with almost no nic in it.

Agreed 100%.
I've also been lowering my nic levels over the last 9-10 months, but not because I felt that I needed to wean myself... I just didn't need that much nic anymore. 12mg nic in my tobacco MTL's are now too harsh for me, and I dropped to 9 - and will drop lower soon'ish. For DTL I dropped from 3 to 2, again just because 3 felt unnecessary (I'll still vape the occasional commercial 3mg juice, though).

 

[JakesSA]

Ironically this will have little to no impact on cigarette smokers. I rather doubt smokers care what the packaging looks like or if its displayed openly or kept under the counter and its not something that's actively advertised anymore .. in any case .. the idea that a colourful picture behind a counter has enticed thousands to take up smoking is ludicrous. Additionally the limitations imposed by this legislation on where one can smoke is pretty much the same as before with a few small amendments. It really only serves to bring vaping under the same banner as smoking.

What hits me in the gut is government's refusal to recognise vaping as a much safer alternative. The net effect of this legislation is that vaping will become more expensive and more difficult to obtain making it even more unlikely for cigarette smokers to consider it and more likely for vapers to switch back to smoking. One must consider that government also has to protect its 'sin' tax base so this might well be the actual intent?

 

[JakesSA]

At the risk of repeating myself, it is important that everyone realises that this legislation will affect everybody. For example, once vaping falls under tobacco legislation nicotine imports will be the first target, effectively depleting DIY options as well as local manufacturing options. Same goes for flavour imports that don't comply to 'the standard'. In fact I suspect the far greater majority of nicotine is imported illegally into South Africa anyway, as it's already covered in legislation and requires a permit. Now apparently everybody and his aunty knows a chemist who has a permit, but if that was even true it only makes targeting nicotine imports destined for vaping that much easier to identify. I've already made my statement about devices in regards to the same.

Please don't be a typical South African and only think of how you can safely bypass/ignore this legislation, it will affect you, it does affect all of us.

Do what you can to fight for your right to a safer alternative.

 

[RichJB]

I think standards and compliance thereto are a great idea. Most consumer products are subject to national or international standards. Only a few are compulsory, usually those with human health, safety or environmental implications. I would think vaping falls squarely under this category.

Vaping manufacturing is dominated by China, a country that gained notoriety for putting melamine in infant milk formula products to fool test apparatus on the protein content of the milk, deceive consumers about the nutritional value of the product, and put the health of millions of infants at risk - and all for the sake of a quick buck. We have already seen the hazards posed by Chinese clone juices and counterfeit batteries. If government implements compulsory standards and testing as a counter to such practices, I'm all for it.

ISO is in the process of finalising its standards for vape devices and juices. I foresee SA adopting these international standards as is for the national standard, which is routine procedure. Standards are supposed to enable trade, not hinder it. So the ideal for all national standards bodies everywhere is to have one globally recognised standard which products are tested against once. When the product has passed testing and is certified to comply with the standard, it is accepted in all markets. SA only allowing device and juice imports which comply with ISO standards would be a positive step.

 

[Adephi]

@Adephi I like that you're lowering your nic, but why wean yourself off vaping altogether just because of the proposed laws? Perhaps you had been thinking about it anyway? We'll still be able to buy mods and juice - but perhaps not online.

My intention is to stop eventually. Was looking to gradually lower my nic and by end of next year to stop.

I simply cannot afford commercial juices and have to diy. And these laws are making it impossible to diy. There is very few shops around that sell a good range of concentrates and quality nic and I live in a major centre. If the internet ban comes in place that will drastically limit my ability to diy, not even to mention the guys in outlaying places.

This morning for example I'm off to go get some Inw Grape to mix some Icee Grape amongst other things. I checked kn the net and saw Vape Hyper got stock. They are the nearest so I'm off to get it and in 30 minutes Im mixing. Now with the new laws will it even be feasible for vendors to have a website? So I will have to phone them to find out if they got stock. If they don't I have to go down the list and hopefully somebody got what I need. Now they are not allowed to advertise so how will we know where the vendors are or if there is any new vendors in the area.

It just seem like it will become like a full time job to diy.

And this will be the case for commercial juices as well. Can you imagine how hard it will be for you to source some quality coffee juice. It will be near impossible to get some international flavours in.

 

[aktorsyl]

And these laws are making it impossible to diy.

Just the nicotine. The flavours, bottles etc will be easy to get online. Even if the shops rebrand themselves as food flavouring resellers. There's no way in hell government can stop anyone from selling food flavouring online, as long as they don't advertise that it's for vaping on their website.

The nicotine will probably be the only tricky thing to get hold of.
But that's why it's a good idea to get used to lower nicotine. You've got the right approach.

 

[Room Fogger]

I'm down to 2mg allready from 6mg. Have had some zero nic juices in between and enjoyed them as well. Will definately like to keep on vaping with nic as I vape more frequently at 0mg. Hoping that I will be able to continue diy as I cannot keep on buying commercial juices the whole time, doing it as my treat for the month.

 

[RichJB]

I can't see Pick n Pay and other major food companies agreeing to no longer sell flavoured processed foods (ice cream, yogurt, cold drinks, etc) because "the govt says we need to stamp out vaping". Food flavourings will always be available. As will cotton, wire, batteries, etc. These are mainstream products, not vaping products.

I don't mind being incentivised to quit nicotine. I enjoy the habit, mechanical routine and taste of vaping, along with the creativity of DIYing. But I absolutely loathe being dependent on nicotine. If I couldn't sit through a three-hour business meeting or catch a flight to CT without my attention turning to nicotine and wanting to stealth vape, I would consider that a major hit to my quality of life. Fortunately I've kept it under control by systematically reducing my nic intake. I intend to keep it there or reduce even further.

This applies to all addictions, not just nic. In my early twenties, I became addicted (or near as darnit) to arcade gaming. Every day, I would go to the arcade with a pocket full of 20c coins and game for hours. At one point, I spent a couple of weeks visiting my parents in Swaziland where there were no gaming arcades. When I got back to Joburg, I couldn't sleep that night because I was so excited at the prospect of going to the arcade and playing Asteroids the next day. It's not a good space to be in. Your quality of life suffers.

I drink a glass of red wine with dinner each night and I've gone to great lengths to restrict it to that and no more. Sometimes I break my routine and go without for three or four evenings just to reassure myself that I am not becoming dependent on it. If I knocked off work each day and my first priority was to rush to the pub for a dop, that would be a red flag to me that it is starting to take up more of my time, thoughts, priorities and money than it should be.

 

[vicTor]

I dont want to quit vaping or lower my nic, I love vaping

will just ride the storm

 

[Hooked]

This is exactly what I'm afraid of ... the banning of flavours

https://www.ecigssa.co.za/reavers-v...od-systems-big-tobacco-the-unholy-tri.t49789/

 

[Hooked]

I dont want to quit vaping or lower my nic, I love vaping

will just ride the storm

Stock up now while you still can ...

 

[aktorsyl]

This is exactly what I'm afraid of ... the banning of flavours

https://www.ecigssa.co.za/reavers-v...od-systems-big-tobacco-the-unholy-tri.t49789/

The banning of flavoured e-liquids. Not flavour concentrates.
So there's hope for DIY.
In fact, DIY would flourish. Nicotine would be tricky to get, but the rest is easy.

Plus: DIY is lots of fun. But it's bad for the juice manufacturers. (although I do have a bone to pick with juice manufacturers who price their juices upwards of R5 per 1ml)

 

[RichJB]

This is exactly what I'm afraid of ... the banning of flavours

https://www.ecigssa.co.za/reavers-v...od-systems-big-tobacco-the-unholy-tri.t49789/

Scott Gottlieb is in two minds about flavours. On the one hand, he recognises that flavoured vapes play a role in enticing smokers to quit. On the other, he has to answer to a non-smoking majority who are concerned about marketing to kids. And Gottlieb himself is concerned too.

I'm kinda with Wayne on this. No matter the intentions of the manufacturer, it's impossible to claim that candy-flavoured vapes aren't attractive to kids. It is not a defence that is going to convince anybody. It sucks that savoury flavours don't work in vape form but it's the reality we have to live with. If we could show entire ranges of bacon+cheese or pizza, garlic+chili vapes, we could convince regulators that we are aiming at adults. But who wants to vape such flavours?

 

[Alex]

I'm up for a good smoked rib vape

 

[RichJB]

Me too. Point me in the direction of a good Salticrax, Brie and Mrs Ball's Chutney vape, and you can keep the Gummy Bears and Bubble-gum vapes. If only the savouries would work.

The problem, I fear, is that nobody has bothered to point out to govt/regulators/non-smoking society just how nasty savouries are in vapour form. Scott Gottlieb was grilled by a woman Senator about vaping flavours. She looked at him skeptically and said "Cookies and cream? Gummy candies?" and he stood met 'n mond vol tande. What he should have done was to take out two setups, hand them to her and say "OK, here are two vapes. This one has strawberry cream in it, this other one has TFA Chicken and Waffles. Why don't you have a taste of each and tell me which you - as an adult - would rather vape?"

The vaping industry seems to take it for granted that everybody else knows that savoury vapes aren't as good as sweet. But do they? It certainly wasn't intuitive to me when I started vaping. When I first went into a vape shop to buy juice, my immediate reaction upon seeing the flavours was wtf, why would I want to smoke watermelon?!? If you don't know, it does seem obviously aimed at kids.

 

[Hooked]

The banning of flavoured e-liquids. Not flavour concentrates.
So there's hope for DIY.
In fact, DIY would flourish. Nicotine would be tricky to get, but the rest is easy.

Plus: DIY is lots of fun. But it's bad for the juice manufacturers. (although I do have a bone to pick with juice manufacturers who price their juices upwards of R5 per 1ml)

But if buying and selling through the Internet is banned, there would be a problem buying concentrates. The DIYers will have to get down to basics and truly MAKE their own concentrates!

 

[aktorsyl]

But if buying and selling through the Internet is banned, there would be a problem buying concentrates. The DIYers will have to get down to basics and truly MAKE their own concentrates!

No there wouldn't, you're buying food flavouring (because that's what they are.. vape flavour concentrates are food flavourings).
No law that says you can't buy that over the Internet. Unlikely there would be, too - it'd mess too much with "actual" food&beverage business if they regulated that too.
The online retailers might have to rebrand a bit, though. BlckVapour -> BlckFlavour, or whatever.

 

[RichJB]

I think we need to wait and see what the final Act stipulates. It is not uncommon at all for Acts to be changed dramatically from the original Bill. I honestly can't see them even trying to stop DIY, let alone succeeding. But even if they do...

 

[Adephi]

I think we need to wait and see what the final Act stipulates. It is not uncommon at all for Acts to be changed dramatically from the original Bill. I honestly can't see them even trying to stop DIY, let alone succeeding. But even if they do...


View attachment 131756

I agree. I'm still very negative about these laws. But maybe its because I watched A Billion Lives a few times too many.

We still need to make our voices heard. And make them understand we are not the enemy in this.