so I see 1 vendors account has already been suspended
But that shifts the responsibility... The banks have very strict rules for who they give cards to. They then hand that responsibility to the courier company, which would be controlled by an SLA of sort? So surely if every step of the transaction is geared towards making it impossible for minors to buy, i.e. Require a credit card, require age verification on delivery, etc. that should satisfy anyrehulatroy requirements?
Ultimately it comes down to a work around though. I'm going to chat to some people in the know... maybe we can come up with a workable solution, specifically for SA vape shops.
I'm not sure sales to minors is the only issue. But from the "high risk merchants" article I read and linked earlier, the category of risk that most seems to fit vaping is "things which are borderline illegal". Even if one is able to design a system that eliminates sales to minors, smoking has such a bad rep and companies are so keen to distance themselves from it that, should vaping be lumped in with tobacco, companies may still prefer to turn down the business.
It is nevertheless something that society will need to look into as it's not just tobacco and vaping where online sales to minors is a problem. Increasingly, commerce is becoming online. And with the threat of mugging and crime, it makes sense for schoolkids to have debit cards rather than cash. So, at some point, society will need to figure out a way to verify the age of online purchasers. I don't know if it will save online vaping sales. But trying to present a solution rather than waiting for the inevitable to happen seems a more positive way forward for me.
It is nevertheless something that society will need to look into as it's not just tobacco and vaping where online sales to minors is a problem. Increasingly, commerce is becoming online. And with the threat of mugging and crime, it makes sense for schoolkids to have debit cards rather than cash. So, at some point, society will need to figure out a way to verify the age of online purchasers. I don't know if it will save online vaping sales. But trying to present a solution rather than waiting for the inevitable to happen seems a more positive way forward for me.
So true!
I don't think this has much to do with selling to minors. It's got to do with the classification. If vape stuff gets classified as Tobacco, it becomes illegal to sell online, regardless of payment method used.
Here is an excerpt from the
Tobacco Products Control Act, 1993 (Act No. 83 of 1993)
if it was simply an issue of minors, its easy to get around, you just do what online foreign virtual currency exchanges do, they require you send them a photo of you and your ID document in the same frame. Then they can verify that you are over 18
So regardless of what MC/V has to say about it. If it gets classified as tobacco, we are screwed anyway regardless. In the meantime, there are other means of payment. EFT and BTC should be more than sufficient enough for most of us. It might delay the process a slight bit, but it's not gonna kill the business.
This is exactly why I have a problem with it. Payfast bends the rules for some and over reaches with others. Both cigars.co.za and cigarclub.co.za sell online and use their services. And they are most definitely tobacco products. Yet a device, which is most definitely not one, and ejuice, which is barely even related except for the nicotine content in some, are picked on because they are receiving more attention. Does Payfast even monitor what you are selling or are they just making their decisions based on your business name/description?
Ram does it for Vodacom and CellC all the time
Why would govt forbid the selling of cigarettes online or through the postal service, though? Govt must have a reason for passing a law. Why would they allow shops to sell cigarettes face to face, but not online? The only reason that makes sense to me is because face to face sales allow the merchant to gauge the age of the buyer, online sales don't. It's a loophole that allows minors to buy age-restricted products.
I think this is also why cigar shops were able to escape the regulation. Cigars are expensive and don't offer much bang for smoking buck. A kid who wants to smoke skelm is more likely to go to the corner cafe and buy smokes than go online and buy cigars. So it makes sense that govt would exempt cigars. Additionally, cigar smokers are few and most won't have specialist cigar shops nearby. Online and postal sales allow cigar smokers to get products they couldn't otherwise source as they have no nearby cigar shops. Nobody can claim they couldn't get cigarettes if they weren't sold online, you can go to your supermarket or bottle store and get them.
There might be another reason why cigarettes can't be sold online. But I can't think of one. Age verification seems the only plausible reason for me.
I can use my capitec savings card as a emulated credit card with payfast services, so I do understand that point it is still possible for minors to order online.
Which one?
Suspended or received notice? I believe 2 have received notice for suspension in June.
The mail from the vendor said account already suspended
they can suck my D - even if I have to phone in my orders, pay EFT and wait for it to clear. I will still get my vape mail delivered.
Blckvapour is 2min from my house, hopefully they'll have an option of going there direct and paying.
Well, there's a reason why Bull City Vapor changed to Bull City Flavors in the US...
I got a call we have 3 weeks left. I also contactet PayU they will also not support Vaping related products for credit card payments.
This is not looking good. EFT only looks like the way forward.
This is not looking good. EFT only looks like the way forward.
Any option with VCS?
We are still trying some other providers.
We will let everyone know if we figure something out...
We will let everyone know if we figure something out...
Paygate seems to be willing to help we are busy with the process. We are still receiving payfast payments though, they have not put us in the dark yet...
This issue was being discussed in Discord yesterday as the US-based DIY site alltheflavors.com has had subscription payments cancelled by Stripe, an American payment processor. Stripe, like PayFast, is no longer processing any vaping-related payments. The explanation that was given to the ATF owner is that vaping payments are too high-risk. This apparently stems from the abnormally high number of chargebacks on vaping-related purchases.
This further confirms the need for regulation. In an unregulated environment, Chinese manufacturers are flooding markets with clones and other products where QC is not up to scratch. Customers aren't happy and a lot of transactions are cancelled and goods returned. Hence the unwillingness of payment processors to serve the industry. Having compulsory national and international standards, thus locking undesirable products out of the market at the entry point, would go a long way towards resolving disputes.
This further confirms the need for regulation. In an unregulated environment, Chinese manufacturers are flooding markets with clones and other products where QC is not up to scratch. Customers aren't happy and a lot of transactions are cancelled and goods returned. Hence the unwillingness of payment processors to serve the industry. Having compulsory national and international standards, thus locking undesirable products out of the market at the entry point, would go a long way towards resolving disputes.
Oh wow... the wheels are off online purchases... I hope the vendors get something better than the EFT system... this is ridiculous and really unfair to vapers! 
So i have been doing a bit of research on the net on a replacement for payfast. What I have read is we can start using Bitcoin as a payment medium. Read more here on how can incorporate Bitcoin: https://www.bitcoin.com/
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