true true.
DIY - Tips and Tricks To get Nicotine Smooth?
anyone consider the volume it’s manufactured in? i’m seriously just guessing but some foods it does make a difference
S
Spyro
Guest
I know that manufacturers state 3mg and drop it to 2.xxmg to make it smoother. Quite a few actually. This is not speculation. I believe this will be an illegal practise after legislation takes hold.
@Spyro I dont think thats true, Why would they just not state the Actual .mg instead, what will they lose if they do?
Why would anyone do that in a commercial environment? its the same as selling a 1.6 golf but only deliver the golf with a 1.4 engine?
And if they only dropping like half a % then surely it wont make that Big difference to harshness
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Watch what you eat before testing flavours. Anything with even the smallest amount of spice can make your vape taste more peperry.
@Dietz you will be surprised how they sell cars bro!. Small things like he CC isn't always what they say it is either.a 950CC is sometimss sold as 1000CC and there is much more regulation in the car manufacturing industry.and now with environmental awareness etc. Some of those lies make false claims in the other direction claiming less harmfull emissions and smaller engines. There are lies all over @Spyro might have a valid point.
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S
Spyro
Guest
They do it to make the juice smoother with less throat hit.
The monetary gain is also significant long term, although I'm sure not a motive.
“The VG/PG ratio is usually between 75/25 and 70/30 and so sometimes would be advertised as either.”
I never thought i’d see the day an “exact science” became a “more or less”
edit: image pfizer said that to a victims family after an accidental overdose.
Yeah I hear you, Maby a bad example to use car engines
but the car is just an example to make a point. at least with cars the lies would be to gain less emissions rating, but whats to gain from juice nicIm just trying to understand what the monetary gain would be?
It just does not make sense, if a juice is smoother at 1mg, then why label it as a 3mg. I see absolutely no gain, unless im missing a point here? Also I don't think its likely that a All juice makers on a international scale would do this without somehow being able to prove on line?
Dont get me wrong I understand that it wont always be 100% 3mg (for example) but the difference would be marginal (like 2.8mg) so rounding off to 3mg in that case makes sense.
but in my opinion the amount of nic you would need to drop (Assuming that you are using gold nic or something Ive used) from a 3mg to get is smooth would be anywhere from 1.5-2mg, In which case I ask why not just label it as a 2mg (as some juice makers do)?
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for sure.not arguing.Yeah I hear you, Maby a bad example to use car engines
Please dont see this as an argument, im just trying to understand what the monetary gain would be?
It just does not make sense, if a juice is smoother at 1mg, then why label it as a 3mg. I see absolutely no gain, unless im missing a point here? Also I don't think its likely that a All juice makers on a international scale would do this without somehow being able to prove on line?
Dont get me wrong I understand that it wont always be 100% 3mg (for example) but the difference would be marginal (like 2.8mg) so rounding off to 3mg in that case makes sense.
but in my opinion the amount of nic you would need to drop (Assuming that you are using gold nic or something Ive used) from a 3mg to get is smooth would be anywhere from 1.5-2mg, In which case I ask why not just label it as a 2mg (as some juice makers do)?
They would say < 3,mg and sell it at 3mg due to 3-,6-,12-,18-,24-,36 is the normal standard of selling e-juice < 1,mg/ml still won't exceed the 3,mg mark but might even be 1,mg/ml and they would be in tje clear. In nic salts (dont know much about it)but they tend to advertise higher mg/ml.
And the point is people wont buy a 1mg/ml juice as they think they need 3-,6mg/ml so from a sales perspective they might claim high and hide the true mg/ml value.In nic salts it might be quite the opposite as people want higher percentage in salts
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And this is not all of them so I am not saying someone is doing this specifically to make profit or sell product and also not saying evey juice maker does this. Im just saying...dont sue me
@Dietz they do this in the housing industry aswell.a house on a corner plot with pool and all the attachment sells for R15M or rents for 20k per month.then all the other houses on that same street also will sell at R15M or rent at 20k p/m just because the guy on the corner with value in his house got he's worth and all the other houses might be falling apart. So your car example is not too far off from the elephant in the room
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Nice find @Faiyaz Cheulkar.they even found higher concentrations than advertised in some juices
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0mg juice had nic in it not sure why a manufacturer would put nic in a 0mg juice. There are definitely inaccuracies when it comes to juices. Quite a few times I've had 3mg which felt like 0mg and 3mg that felt like 3mg.
From the linked article:
OK, how does a vaper who usually vapes nic-free juice not detect 23.9mg/ml? How does he not get a major head rush from that?
I can accept that juices vary due to inconsistency of strength in nicotine batches. So a 3mg juice could easily turn out to be 2mg or 4mg because the manufacturer measured out the correct amount in good faith but received 80mg or 120mg nic from their supplier instead of the advertised 100mg. But I don't see how a 0mg juice can 'accidentally' get even 5.7mg in it. If it was only 0.1mg, you could maybe believe that it was nic residue in mixing apparatus that wasn't cleaned properly between mixing a nic batch and a no-nic batch. But not 5.7mg and certainly not 23.9mg!
I think this is an area that will need to be watched very carefully by regulators. For all the vaping industry's claims that nicotine isn't addictive, they know damn well that it is. In an unregulated market, there is nothing stopping the less ethical ones from cramming as much nicotine as they can into juice, even 0mg juice, to try and get their customers hooked as completely as possible. And then also doing lab work to develop additives for juice that make it as addictive as possible. Nic salts was the first such development, I'm sure there will be many more.
Even as a DIYer, I can't control what is going into my juice. I can control the amounts I add, taking it on faith that the label is accurate. But how do I know what 'extras' might be added to my nic at the factory, and which aren't reported on the label? I think the flavours are fine because those are food & beverage industry products where addiction level isn't a factor. But I remain suspicious about nicotine. The sooner these products are subjected to mandatory and routine regulatory batch testing, the better imo.
OK, how does a vaper who usually vapes nic-free juice not detect 23.9mg/ml? How does he not get a major head rush from that?
I can accept that juices vary due to inconsistency of strength in nicotine batches. So a 3mg juice could easily turn out to be 2mg or 4mg because the manufacturer measured out the correct amount in good faith but received 80mg or 120mg nic from their supplier instead of the advertised 100mg. But I don't see how a 0mg juice can 'accidentally' get even 5.7mg in it. If it was only 0.1mg, you could maybe believe that it was nic residue in mixing apparatus that wasn't cleaned properly between mixing a nic batch and a no-nic batch. But not 5.7mg and certainly not 23.9mg!
I think this is an area that will need to be watched very carefully by regulators. For all the vaping industry's claims that nicotine isn't addictive, they know damn well that it is. In an unregulated market, there is nothing stopping the less ethical ones from cramming as much nicotine as they can into juice, even 0mg juice, to try and get their customers hooked as completely as possible. And then also doing lab work to develop additives for juice that make it as addictive as possible. Nic salts was the first such development, I'm sure there will be many more.
Even as a DIYer, I can't control what is going into my juice. I can control the amounts I add, taking it on faith that the label is accurate. But how do I know what 'extras' might be added to my nic at the factory, and which aren't reported on the label? I think the flavours are fine because those are food & beverage industry products where addiction level isn't a factor. But I remain suspicious about nicotine. The sooner these products are subjected to mandatory and routine regulatory batch testing, the better imo.
Let me throw a cat among the pigeons here. I think you guys complaining about nic harshness are causing this by exposing your nic to too much oxygen in your mixing and or by trying to accelerate steeping.
Shaking or stirring in a manner that introduces air bubbles into your juice or exposes it to the open air for extended perionds will degrade your nic resulting in the experience you are describing.
Shake to mix but not so violently that it turns milky and then leave it sealed while time does the rest. Youre not making majonaise, so dont treat it as such.
And thats all i have to say about that.
Regards
Shaking or stirring in a manner that introduces air bubbles into your juice or exposes it to the open air for extended perionds will degrade your nic resulting in the experience you are describing.
Shake to mix but not so violently that it turns milky and then leave it sealed while time does the rest. Youre not making majonaise, so dont treat it as such.
And thats all i have to say about that.
Regards
What about shaking your nic before mixing? For PG nic, I literally shake it for about five seconds. In general, my sense is that we shake/stir things too much. I have tried shaking a mix for only about twenty seconds before putting it away to steep, and didn't notice any hot spots when I vaped it. It turned out the same as juices that I shake for several minutes.
The other issue is oxidation over time. Commercial mixers will tend to use up a whole quantity, say two litres, of nic in making a batch. A DIYer on 1.5 or 3mg might take six months to use up a 100ml bottle of nic. So it's likely that our nic has degraded more than the commercial mixer's nic by the time it's used. We might both keep large (for our purposes) quantities of nic in the freezer/fridge. But the commercial mixer's nic bottle goes straight from freezer to juice, then it's finished. So full bottle to empty bottle in one mixing session. Ours goes from fridge to juice multiple times (with more oxygen in the bottle each time we mix and the nic level in the bottle drops) before it's done. Could that be a factor?
The other issue is oxidation over time. Commercial mixers will tend to use up a whole quantity, say two litres, of nic in making a batch. A DIYer on 1.5 or 3mg might take six months to use up a 100ml bottle of nic. So it's likely that our nic has degraded more than the commercial mixer's nic by the time it's used. We might both keep large (for our purposes) quantities of nic in the freezer/fridge. But the commercial mixer's nic bottle goes straight from freezer to juice, then it's finished. So full bottle to empty bottle in one mixing session. Ours goes from fridge to juice multiple times (with more oxygen in the bottle each time we mix and the nic level in the bottle drops) before it's done. Could that be a factor?
I am still doing my homework before attempting another mix, but @RichJB 's post makes logical sense to me. What would the solution be? Bigger batches? smaller Nic bottles?
Now I'm convinced that vg nic is the way to go, I just tried with a pg batch of gold nic and it does not mellow out as well as vg nic does.
I'm definitely going back to vg Nic, even if I have to steep for a bit longer.
Ratio?
2mg per 60ml
One possibility is to decant a 100ml nic bottle into 5x20ml HDPE droppers. Then you have four full bottles (less oxygen exposure) in the fridge/freezer while you use up the first one. I don't know if it will solve the problem but will probably serve to keep your nic fresher and reduce oxidation.
Surely it doesnt make a difference whether you use PG or VG nic?
As long as the final ratio of the mixed juice is right?
Or am I missing something?
@RichJB , would you say that nic ages differently in PG versus VG?
Or is it just the amount of air it gets exposed to?
Maybe the nic in VG is "preserved" better? Or something to that effect?
I can't say I've noticed a difference between VG and PG nic. That said, I don't get much harshness from nic of any type so I probably wouldn't notice the difference.
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