DIY - Your first time

[WHITELABEL]

hi all.

i have looked around and maybe i'm blind but haven't seen this asked. As a noob to DIY, i ordered some PG,VG and 36% nic VG juice from skyblue. Of course there were a few concentrates included as well.

My question is, the VG nic juice is extremely thick and i cant really use the syringes to measure it out. Should i be pre mixing it with the no nic vg or is the a better/easier way to work with the nic juice.

Hope this isn't the doffest question you've heard.

Nah man good question. I use PG nic purely because it's easier to work with and because I mix at around 40pg 60vg for my target ratio. Lot's of people prefer high VG juices so pure VG nic becomes necessary. Depending on what you want your final ratio to be I would just cut it in half with PG. If you're using a calculator like ejuicemeup http://ejuice.breaktru.com/ or the one on the Skyblu website, you'll see there that it has a field for the strength of the nic (36mg which if you cut it in half with pg will be 18mg) and the pg/vg ratio. So if you dilute it with half pg, you will input a 50/50 pgvg ratio with 18mg strength. That will definitely make it easier to work with. Hope that helps!

 

[dewald.kotze]

Nah man good question. I use PG nic purely because it's easier to work with and because I mix at around 40pg 60vg for my target ratio. Lot's of people prefer high VG juices so pure VG nic becomes necessary. Depending on what you want your final ratio to be I would just cut it in half with PG. If you're using a calculator like ejuicemeup http://ejuice.breaktru.com/ or the one on the Skyblu website, you'll see there that it has a field for the strength of the nic (36mg which if you cut it in half with pg will be 18mg) and the pg/vg ratio. So if you dilute it with half pg, you will input a 50/50 pgvg ratio with 18mg strength. That will definitely make it easier to work with. Hope that helps!

Thanks Gambit. That does make sense. I was thinking of doing that, the bottles are just a bit full at the moment so will have to source some bottles to pre-mix the nic in.

 

[Viv]

The difference is purely the company that sells them

They are both American companies and the top two companies around the world when it comes to flavour for DIY. Although they do not provide flavours for just e-liquid, they do provide some of their flavours with e-liquid in mind as they are constantly improving based on feedback from the e-cig community.

When you read the international forums there are people that prefer the one over the other, but their flavour profiles are in fact very similar for the most part, but the one company will produce a flavour the other doesn't and vice versa.

In the end there are only about 4 companies worldwide that actually make the flavours and companies like TFA and Capella are in fact just resellers. So it is quite possible that some of their flavours are in fact exactly the same thing

What are the 4 companies wirldwide? why only 4? is it because of the NIC?

 

[Viv]

I've been seeing an increase in the number of people wanting to try out DIY and I thought I would post a quick-start guide.

Note: This is my recommendation of how to get going, you can probably find plenty of other guides online or by talking to experienced DIY-ers.

With that out of the way let's start:
It seems daunting, I know. PG/VG, nicotine, flavours, percentages, calculators that give you weird error messages and omg can I mix it wrong and kill myself?

There are 2 ways you can mix DIY - The supremely accurate, scientific method, where everything works out exactly down to the 0.01 of a ml, or the not-so-accurate, but close enough (and easy) method.

For this post, I'm just going to talk about the easy method. It does not work out your nic level to the exact mg/ml, but gets it pretty close and it errs on the side of caution (so you nic level will be a bit lower if anything).

So let's get some terminology out of the way first:
Nic
Nicotine and generally measured in mg per ml, or % per volume. Coincidentally the two measurement methods have pretty much a 1:1 relationship - i.e. 36mg/ml = 3.6% Vol.
PG
Propylene Glycol - it is a superior flavour carrier and solvent (makes your flavours mix and not separate), also adds to the throat hit.
VG
Vegetable Glycerin or just Gylcerin - The vapour producer, but not so great at carrying flavours, easy on the throat

The easy (but not so accurate) method:
1. Premix your DIY e-liquid to the correct PG/VG ratio and nic strength.
2. Add Flavour to a small sample
3. Vape

Yep, as easy as that, but I'll explain a bit more
When starting out, I recommend you do a 50/50 PG/VG mix, here you get the best of both worlds (flavour vs vapour) - later when you get better at mixing, you can do higher VG mixes for those 'sick clouds' or for whatever ratio you later find you prefer. 50/50 is also the easiest to mix.

When starting out, use the PG and VG that have no nicotine in it, it is by far cheaper than the PG and VG that contain nic, so if it is a total unvapable disaster, at least you are wasting the cheap stuff.

1. So add 5ml of pure, no nic PG to 5ml of pure no nic VG and you now have a 10ml 50/50 PG/VG mix with no nicotine.

2. Add 0.8ml of the flavour you want to try - 0.8ml of 10ml works out to 8% strength and 8% is a good place to start with most flavours.

3. Vape - here I recommend using a dripper, purely because it is easier to try a small sample with a dripper, with a tank you would either have to vape the tank empty, or wash it out between tastings, but there is nothing wrong with using a tank, just a bit more 'work'

Now you can mess with the flavour percentage, add a bit more if you like it stronger, add more PG/VG if you like it weaker. Add specific amounts, so you can have some idea of what he final percentage is that you like.

Beginners tend to add too much flavouring to start off with, the upside to a lot of flavour is that it tastes really great in the short term, but you will get sick of the flavour a lot quicker. With TFA and Capella flavours I recommend that you go no higher than about 12% strength.

And that's it for this post - next post will be in a day or two, depending on my schedule, but I'll continue with the easy method and talk about making mixes with nicotine.

Feel free to ask questions on this post, will answer as I see them

EDIT: I will use this as a kind of 'series' and take you through to the advanced stuff, so you should be able to become a master mixer if you follow these posts. I will also include some info on steeping and address some of the myths, do's and don't's etc.

I'm wondering about making the extracts for adding to the e liquid, in terms of DIY, not the flavours part - the nicotine part? i imagine lisences for growing tabacco are involved... anyone know anything about this?

 

[free3dom]

What are the 4 companies wirldwide? why only 4? is it because of the NIC?

Not sure why only 4, but I suspect that it's due to the fact that creating artificial flavours is a very involved chemical process - and it requires a lot of money to do. The same thing goes for most advanced industries, only a handful make the low-level stuff and then other companies license this technology and puts it to use.

These flavouring companies do not distribute nicotine though - flavouring actually has nothing to do with the vaping industry, it's used for food, beverages, etc. The vaping industry just made use of this existing stuff for making e-liquids

That said, some of the companies are starting to target the vaping industry directly now with their flavourings, but not openly due to the stigma attached to vaping.

 

[Viper_SA]

Probably a bit like petrol. almost all petrol in South Africa is made by Natref, and then the rest of thecompanies just add their own additives etc.

 

[ChadB]

Hi guys,
I'm looking to buy some cheap 10ml>1l glass bottles (with droppers) and plastic bottles in Johannesburg (not too expensive).
If anyone can help me it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Derick]

Check out Bonpak in Edenvale - They are mainly a bulk sales company, but they are willing to sell small quantities (at a bit of an increase in price)

http://www.bonpak.co.za/

 

[ChadB]

Great, thank you I appreciate it.
I will contact them tomorrow. I also found these, but i'm still looking

 

[Eequinox]

sour additive and some sweetener and even a small amount of menthol goes nicely with fruits.

sour additive ?

 

[Eequinox]

I can relate - I started off with Liqua juices and most of them were crap, but I could mix them together to create something vapable and this is where the DIY bug took hold of me.

same here i did exactly the same thing

 

[hands]

sour additive ?

http://valleyvapour.co.za/product/sour-flavour-concentrate/

 

[Eequinox]

http://valleyvapour.co.za/product/sour-flavour-concentrate/

ah ok thanks

 

[Eequinox]

Dear diary...I mean dear vapers

I mixed up two more batches today: one with max PG, and one with max VG. Both were done with the same ratio of pineapple flavour (~8%) and nic level (12mg) so that I could test how the different fluids perform in relation to one another.

These are the amounts I used for each of the 3 mixes (for each I made 12ml, so the ratios are ml/12):
The flavour is TFA Pineapple (from SkyBlue ).

1. 50/50 PG/VG, 12ml, 12mg (Not exactly 50/50, but close enough)
36mg PG: 2ml
0mg PG: 3ml
36mg VG: 2ml
0mg VG: 4ml
Flavour: 1ml

2. ~100 PG, 12ml, 12mg
36mg PG: 4ml
0mg PG: 7ml
Flavour: 1ml

3. ~100 VG, 12ml, 12mg (because the flavour is PG based, this is not actually 100% VG, but again, close enough for my purposes)
36mg VG: 4ml
0mg VG: 7ml
Flavour: 1ml

#1 (from a few days ago) turned out great. The pineapple flavour was spot on for my tastes - not too sweet and not too dull. It also produced a fairly mild but acceptable throat hit - this is one area I would like to improve (read: increase) in the original mix. All in all, very satisfying and I could probably vape it all day as long as I have a nice TH juice in another device to hit every so often - which is exactly what I did during my test period (Strawberry Snap 18mg, very nice TH).

#2 was a max PG liquid and was quite interesting. From what I've read, and based on what I understand, it does flavour better but at the cost of vapor production. I have now confirmed this . At the same ratios of liquid to flavour, the Pinapple was noticably more pronounced and in fact a little strong (sweet) for my tastes. Not bad, but just a tad over the top. It did settle a bit as I vaped it, so it might have just been that I did not mix it well enough (see note at end). I was also very surprised by just how much the vapor is reduced when vaping the PG only liquid (I knew it was supposed to, but wow) - I felt very inadequate at the sight of such tiny whispy little clouds I also did not really feel much of an improved throat hit as compared to the 50/50 mix as I had expected - curious. I'm not ready to say that higher PG does nothing for TH, but it didn't do much for me in this mix. Will have to experiment more, as increase of TH is something I am very interested in. Final verdict, it's okay, but I much prefered the 50/50 to this one.

#3 was a max VG, and here the VG is actually quite a bit less than 100 because of the flavouring. From what I've read, VG is supposed to be the magical ingredient of clouds...and indeed, it almost started raining when I fired it up Very noticable improvement in vapor production, and my earlier feelings of inadequacy evaporated along with the fluffy clouds As for flavour, it was noticably muted; better than the sweetness of the PG, but not as good as in the 50/50 - some of this may be due to my mixing ability when working with the sludge that is VG Finally, the almost complete lack of throat hit is astonishing - a massive negative for me, but could be a very big positive for those that do not like a harsh TH. I think this is what surprised me the most, you feel almost nothing going it and then...clouds for days - crazy stuff. Final verdict, nice clouds but the lack of a good throat hit spoils it for me personally; again the 50/50 wins

So after all this, the 50/50 mix was definitely the best overall, and I'm starting to see why they are used together. A nice little experiment, and a good first step. Thanks again @Derick!

I welcome any and all clarifications, insights, and wisdoms based on my very simplistic analysis of the effects of PG/VG ratios on vape liquids. I will report back if the juices change profile overnight due to a visit from the vape fairy

And that's it for this entry. Hopefully it will add some value to this thread

Next I will try to fiddle around with maybe doing ~3/4 (80/20 or 70/30) ratios to see if that fixes some of the quirks of these "max" versions. I also might do a higher nic version of the 50/50 - in persuit of that bigger throat hit I might also have a look at some additives to try and divine their effects on the juices.

NOTE: Mixing pure PG is sooo much easier than with VG; PG flows like water, whereas VG is like slime I should have known that something with Vegetable in the name would be gross

wow fantastic post i was thinking of trying this today to see what the actual differences would be

 

[Clouds4Days]

@Derick
This thread has really been helpful in my new venture into diy.
Picked up my first supplys yesterday and got right into it. Great fun I must say.

Obviously it's all a learning curve for now but brewed up some simple flavours that look like the are promising and some not so promising at all. Hahaha

I did vape my mixes just to see initial taste so now I will let them steep.

Made a simple mango cream with
7% mango
3.5% cream
Tastes decent.

Also made a banana desert
Banana cream 6.5%
Caramel 2.5%
Coffee expresso 1%

These are the 2 that seem promising

Thanks for all the advice on the thread.
Now I'm gonna take some recipes down for ingredients on my next shopping day ☺

 

[Schnappie]

Just attempted my own suckerpunch clone...with an online recipe.
Being the impatient person that I didnt have any measuring equipment yet so I just roughly estimated the values and mixed up some dragonfruit with a bit of bavarian cream and a bit of vanilla swirl with about 75:25 vgpg and gave it two warm water baths from yesterday. It is still gonna steep for a week but i tried a halftank now and it tastes awesome! Suppose dragonfruit is a very forgiving flavour though

 

[Naas]

Not sure if this is the correct thread.

Does anybody have experience with Creative Flavors International Flavors ?
and How do they work for E-liquid ?

 

[Wesley]

@Derick
This thread has really been helpful in my new venture into diy.
Picked up my first supplys yesterday and got right into it. Great fun I must say.

Obviously it's all a learning curve for now but brewed up some simple flavours that look like the are promising and some not so promising at all. Hahaha

I did vape my mixes just to see initial taste so now I will let them steep.

Made a simple mango cream with
7% mango
3.5% cream
Tastes decent.

Also made a banana desert
Banana cream 6.5%
Caramel 2.5%
Coffee expresso 1%

These are the 2 that seem promising

Thanks for all the advice on the thread.
Now I'm gonna take some recipes down for ingredients on my next shopping day ☺

Banana works surprisingly well with coffee. Is that FA Coffee Espresso? I've found it is incredibly strong, I use it at 0.5 or even 0.25% in Mixes and it still comes through nicely.

 

[Clouds4Days]

Hi @Wesley
I have no idea which coffee expresso I use. I got it from vapeowave.
I'm still new to diy but I've seen certain bottles say Dx on them etc... what do these letters mean ?

 

[shaunnadan]

Hi @Wesley
I have no idea which coffee expresso I use. I got it from vapeowave.
I'm still new to diy but I've seen certain bottles say Dx on them etc... what do these letters mean ?

This is the new DX version, which is diketone (acetoin, diacetyl and acetyl propionyl) free.

 

[method1]

DX also usually means "don't xpect" it to be as tasty as the diketone versions
That said they usually just seem to require a longer steep IME.

 

[shaunnadan]

DX also usually means "don't xpect" it to be as tasty as the diketone versions
That said they usually just seem to require a longer steep IME.

often when purchasing i will look for the "other" versions

 

[kyle_redbull]

Is there a link to a calculator to work out exactly what percentage to use of flavour etc. Can you make your mixes have too much flavour? How do I know that the amount of VG PG and flavour is correct to give me the best flavour I would probably go 50/50 or 60pg and 40vg as I am more after flavour. How do u ensure u add enough nice should I want a 3ml or 6ml nice content.

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[Anwar]

Google ejuice me up and download

Its all youll ever need when mixing

I would recommend you watch some youtube videos on diying eliquid, it really helped me learn alot even before i started mixing

Send me a message if you need any other assitance, i have been mixing for a while now and even have my own eliquid business

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[kyle_redbull]

@Anwar thanks bud we will definitely chat

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