More discussion on clones

KZOR said:
Just amazes me how outspoken certain individuals can be when they surrounded by like-minded people but as soon as a platform is created where they debate their point with cognitive diversity then they either bail or never step up to the plate.
I would honestly love to hear their thoughts as it might have the slight chance to convince me to change my mind.
My decisions are primarily based on pro's outweighing cons so please can we get more points from the NCZ members.
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Too true. I buy what I can afford. I have never and probably will never buy any HE gear, I cannot justify spending R5k+ for a mech mod for example. If I have R150 to spare for a clone RDA from china, then I will. As @BioHAZarD stated a few times, it's about pro-choice. Granted, some of the HE gear is absolutely beautiful to look at, and if you can afford it then by all means its your choice. You do you and let others do themselves.
 
Humbolt said:
Too true. I buy what I can afford. I have never and probably will never buy any HE gear, I cannot justify spending R5k+ for a mech mod for example. If I have R150 to spare for a clone RDA from china, then I will. As @BioHAZarD stated a few times, it's about pro-choice. Granted, some of the HE gear is absolutely beautiful to look at, and if you can afford it then by all means its your choice. You do you and let others do themselves.
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Just make sure u get some pills from @M.Adhir
 
Humbolt said:
Too true. I buy what I can afford. I have never and probably will never buy any HE gear, I cannot justify spending R5k+ for a mech mod for example. If I have R150 to spare for a clone RDA from china, then I will. As @BioHAZarD stated a few times, it's about pro-choice. Granted, some of the HE gear is absolutely beautiful to look at, and if you can afford it then by all means its your choice. You do you and let others do themselves.
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I buy mostly based on looks, if i could afford a shelf full of HE i would because most HE mods are just beautiful.

Its human nature to want the best and most beautiful but in the real world you may only be able to get a beer goggle 5/ 5 and a half.
 
so on the matter of clones, who's putting up a real tree and who's putting up a fake this year and why?
 
lesvaches said:
so on the matter of clones, who's putting up a real tree and who's putting up a fake this year and why?
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I dont normally do trees but since my son enjoys lights and tearing shit to pieces i may put one up
 
BioHAZarD said:
Gotta have a tree buddy
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Yeah i know, gotta start doing it again, its been in storage for a few years now, never had the patients to untangle the lights so just out it of from then.

Just gonna go out and buy new stuff this weekend, Game had awesome ones last year.
 
Just been to a shop at a fleamarket.

Jam Monstert 120ml for R60.

Their excuse is they need to clear stock because of new regulations regarding some sort of warning that needs to be on the bottles.....

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 
BioHAZarD said:
1. Is there any proof that clones are made with inferior/hazardous materials. actual proof
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I can accept that clones are made with lower grade stainless steel. I don't think the vapour cares what sort of metal it comes into contact with. The vape will be the same and the metal will outlast the atty anyway. People generally only use atties for six months or so before moving on. I see no reason to have build quality that will sustain for twenty years when vape gear is essentially disposable items. When I smoked, I used a Bic lighter, not a gold-plated Cartier. I used the cheap cardboard box the cigs came in, not some fancy platinum case from Dunhill. It's a drug addiction, I want to spend as little as possible on it.

As to safety, I see no difference. Vaping accidents are overwhelmingly caused by batteries, not by devices. A battery with torn wraps and a missing insulator ring is just as hazardous in a R5k HE mech as it is in a R400 clone.

I think the safety argument is falsely perpetuated by some manufacturers to justify the higher prices of their products. We had exactly the same thing in the juice sector initially, with some claiming that "DIY bathtub juice" is hazardous to your health. It manifestly isn't. Sorted.

BioHAZarD said:
2. How can the assumption be made that clones negatively impact authentic sales by such a huge margin.
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Dino from Velocity said he didn't think clones impacted his sales much, if at all. It makes absolutely no sense that a vaper who buys a R300 clone will pay R1500 for an OG if that R300 clone isn't available. He will instead go up one notch and buy a R400-500 OG budget atty from Vandy Vape et al.

It could be argued that HE and clone manufacturers are in fundamentally different businesses. The clone guys are in consumer retail where high volume and low profit (competitiveness) are keys to success. The HE guys are in the collector segment where rarity/exclusivity are key. So it's like comparing an original Versace ball gown with a Mr Price T-shirt. They might both be classified as clothing but it's completely different market sectors. Mr Price ripping off a Diesel design isn't going to affect Diesel sales because Mr Price customers don't buy Diesel and never will. Again, I'm in the Mr Price segment. Clothing is a functional everyday item. Paying R1400 for a T-shirt just doesn't make sense to me.

That said, those who are willing to pay high fashion prices for clothes or HE prices for vaping gear have nothing but my best wishes and goodwill. It's not that I don't have anything against it, it's that I actively prefer it. Diversity and freedom of choice are inherently healthy. If nobody liked HE gear or was willing to pay for it, the vaping community would be the poorer for it. Not just poorer financially but also poorer in terms of innovation, choice, scope, diversity, vibrancy, opportunity. These are key indicators in any sector.
 
@RichJB ....... i love a man with common sense. Well said. :)
I think the "Pro-choice" folk have covered all the bases so if the NCZ individuals still choose to not respond then they can rightfully shove their concerns up into a place where the sun don't shine.
 
jm10 said:
Yeah i know, gotta start doing it again, its been in storage for a few years now, never had the patients to untangle the lights so just out it of from then.

Just gonna go out and buy new stuff this weekend, Game had awesome ones last year.
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that’s why they invented china town. just make sure you get a certificate of authenticity, we wouldn’t want china to sue.
 
RichJB said:
I can accept that clones are made with lower grade stainless steel. I don't think the vapour cares what sort of metal it comes into contact with. The vape will be the same and the metal will outlast the atty anyway. People generally only use atties for six months or so before moving on. I see no reason to have build quality that will sustain for twenty years when vape gear is essentially disposable items. When I smoked, I used a Bic lighter, not a gold-plated Cartier. I used the cheap cardboard box the cigs came in, not some fancy platinum case from Dunhill. It's a drug addiction, I want to spend as little as possible on it.

As to safety, I see no difference. Vaping accidents are overwhelmingly caused by batteries, not by devices. A battery with torn wraps and a missing insulator ring is just as hazardous in a R5k HE mech as it is in a R400 clone.

I think the safety argument is falsely perpetuated by some manufacturers to justify the higher prices of their products. We had exactly the same thing in the juice sector initially, with some claiming that "DIY bathtub juice" is hazardous to your health. It manifestly isn't. Sorted.



Dino from Velocity said he didn't think clones impacted his sales much, if at all. It makes absolutely no sense that a vaper who buys a R300 clone will pay R1500 for an OG if that R300 clone isn't available. He will instead go up one notch and buy a R400-500 OG budget atty from Vandy Vape et al.

It could be argued that HE and clone manufacturers are in fundamentally different businesses. The clone guys are in consumer retail where high volume and low profit (competitiveness) are keys to success. The HE guys are in the collector segment where rarity/exclusivity are key. So it's like comparing an original Versace ball gown with a Mr Price T-shirt. They might both be classified as clothing but it's completely different market sectors. Mr Price ripping off a Diesel design isn't going to affect Diesel sales because Mr Price customers don't buy Diesel and never will. Again, I'm in the Mr Price segment. Clothing is a functional everyday item. Paying R1400 for a T-shirt just doesn't make sense to me.

That said, those who are willing to pay high fashion prices for clothes or HE prices for vaping gear have nothing but my best wishes and goodwill. It's not that I don't have anything against it, it's that I actively prefer it. Diversity and freedom of choice are inherently healthy. If nobody liked HE gear or was willing to pay for it, the vaping community would be the poorer for it. Not just poorer financially but also poorer in terms of innovation, choice, scope, diversity, vibrancy, opportunity. These are key indicators in any sector.
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@RichJB well said!!
if you wanted to stretch the argument a little further you could actually argue that clones are good for the normal consumer market (VV, Wotofo, etc) in that a vaper would rather pay R450 - R600 for a normal authentic than say R450 for the clone of a authentic HE product. (there are obviously certain exceptions)

I have yet to come across a scenario where there are an abundance of HE product becoz the clones took the market. I think it is actually more a case that the HE manufacturers need to wake up and realize that they cant punt their products at such ridiculous prices when the mainstream is not so far behind in terms of quality for a fraction of the price.

Clones imo will never take food off the table of a HE manufacturer. They just don't have the size to compete and they are serving different markets. Bottom line they are just not geared to serve a larger market.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
BioHAZarD said:
They only want to be righteous pricks in their own review threads so that they can run to mommy when someone says something that is not nice or hurts their feelings. Or they go and moan on Youtube about it like a bunch of immature brats.
Click to expand...

Best video i have ever watched
 
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