Vaping Legislation RSA
- Thread starter Imperator
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This is the problem, though. In every country that has regulated vaping, there have been outcries that vaping has effectively been banned and that it's time for armed revolution. On Aug 8 2016, Heathen Billy was literally almost in tears as he announced the end of vaping in the US, invoked the spirit of the Founding Fathers and told viewers it was perhaps time to take up arms because "our freedom of speech has been denied". Two years later, he's still reviewing as he always did, has his own line of Dead Rabbit drippers out, and life is seemingly good for him. So why all the doom and gloom?
We saw the same thing in the EU with the TPD - people saying it was the end of vaping and the evil Brussels government had won. How was it the "end" of vaping? Because vapers now could only buy juice in 10ml bottles? So what? You buy three 10ml bottles and decant into a 30ml bottle. Sorted. Then there was the outcry over 2ml tanks. So you buy an atty with a 2ml tank fitted and you swap out for the spare 5ml glass provided in the kit. It takes thirty seconds. Really, was this the apocalypse that vapers were lamenting? It was a minor inconvenience, nothing more.
I don't see anything in these regs that removes or even impedes my right to vape. Speaking as a vaper rather than a vendor or manufacturer, my capsule summary of the proposed regs:
White labels: as a DIYer, I mix in bottles and plak a handwritten masking tape label on the bottle. A white printed label would be HE for me. So no problem there.
Sin taxes: as long as it's moderate, I don't mind. I don't want to pay R80 for flavours that used to cost R25. But I'll pay R30 no problem. Vapers are a wealthy demographic generally and a tiny minority. So we are an obvious target for taxation, the masses will be very enthusiastic about us being taxed rather than a VAT hike. I don't like it but to expect to escape taxation would be unrealistic.
No vaping in public: no problem. I rarely take my vape out with me. If I hung out all day in vape shops, it might bother me. But I don't. Do I even vape, bro? If I'm not hot-boxing my mom's Honda Civic, I guess not.
Flavour bans: this hasn't eventuated. But even if it did, it wouldn't affect me as a DIYer. They are not going to ban food flavourings. The food industry uses them.
Bans on testers: no problem. I don't expect Pick n Pay to let me try every brand of marmalade in store before choosing one, I wouldn't expect a vape shop to either. I've never tried a tester in a vape shop. Of course, I've never bought commercial juice either. So there's that.
No marketing: I've never bought a device because the vendor promoted it on their FB page or in-store. I go off reviews mainly, along with an assessment of the features I want/need most. As long as they still allow reviews, that is all the info I need. Seeing as I mostly order online, I'm rarely in vape shops anyway.
Nicotine regulation: depends on what they mean. If they only allow 36mg and only 100ml at a time, for eg, I'll live with that. As long as it's not a blanket prohibition, I'm not fussed. If they get silly and insist it can only be 10ml bottles, such that I have to buy 10 at a time and spend all of five minutes decanting into a 100ml dropper bottle, it will be a PITA. But it's not something I'm going to launch a revolution over.
As a manufacturer or vendor, I may feel differently. But I'm not. For me as a vaper, these regs are pretty tame. There is nothing in there that is an obstacle to my vaping.
We saw the same thing in the EU with the TPD - people saying it was the end of vaping and the evil Brussels government had won. How was it the "end" of vaping? Because vapers now could only buy juice in 10ml bottles? So what? You buy three 10ml bottles and decant into a 30ml bottle. Sorted. Then there was the outcry over 2ml tanks. So you buy an atty with a 2ml tank fitted and you swap out for the spare 5ml glass provided in the kit. It takes thirty seconds. Really, was this the apocalypse that vapers were lamenting? It was a minor inconvenience, nothing more.
I don't see anything in these regs that removes or even impedes my right to vape. Speaking as a vaper rather than a vendor or manufacturer, my capsule summary of the proposed regs:
White labels: as a DIYer, I mix in bottles and plak a handwritten masking tape label on the bottle. A white printed label would be HE for me. So no problem there.
Sin taxes: as long as it's moderate, I don't mind. I don't want to pay R80 for flavours that used to cost R25. But I'll pay R30 no problem. Vapers are a wealthy demographic generally and a tiny minority. So we are an obvious target for taxation, the masses will be very enthusiastic about us being taxed rather than a VAT hike. I don't like it but to expect to escape taxation would be unrealistic.
No vaping in public: no problem. I rarely take my vape out with me. If I hung out all day in vape shops, it might bother me. But I don't. Do I even vape, bro? If I'm not hot-boxing my mom's Honda Civic, I guess not.
Flavour bans: this hasn't eventuated. But even if it did, it wouldn't affect me as a DIYer. They are not going to ban food flavourings. The food industry uses them.
Bans on testers: no problem. I don't expect Pick n Pay to let me try every brand of marmalade in store before choosing one, I wouldn't expect a vape shop to either. I've never tried a tester in a vape shop. Of course, I've never bought commercial juice either. So there's that.
No marketing: I've never bought a device because the vendor promoted it on their FB page or in-store. I go off reviews mainly, along with an assessment of the features I want/need most. As long as they still allow reviews, that is all the info I need. Seeing as I mostly order online, I'm rarely in vape shops anyway.
Nicotine regulation: depends on what they mean. If they only allow 36mg and only 100ml at a time, for eg, I'll live with that. As long as it's not a blanket prohibition, I'm not fussed. If they get silly and insist it can only be 10ml bottles, such that I have to buy 10 at a time and spend all of five minutes decanting into a 100ml dropper bottle, it will be a PITA. But it's not something I'm going to launch a revolution over.
As a manufacturer or vendor, I may feel differently. But I'm not. For me as a vaper, these regs are pretty tame. There is nothing in there that is an obstacle to my vaping.
Well, let's see what taxation they settle on. Vaping has been subject to severe DE-flation since I started in early 2016. Back then, TFA/FA/FW were R40 each. Now you can get them for R20 each, a 50% price reduction. Nic was R180, now it's R100 or less if you're willing to settle for Scrawny Gecko. Juice has also been cut. Remember the days when R150 for 30ml of a local juice was the norm?
Mods, atties and batteries have similarly been slashed in price. When I started vaping, a 25R or LG choc was R200. Now you can get them for R120. Dual cell mods were north of R1200, now you can get them for R700-800. Remember that cigarettes have increased in the meantime due to sin taxes and general inflation. So unless the taxation hike is monstrous (like 80%+), vaping will still be cheaper than it was two years ago. There's not many consumer sectors you can say that about.
Well, we don't know yet, do we? From my digging I don't think the Bill has been published, so I'm wary of speculating too much, but I think I've made it clear enough that the gist of my concern is a Department of Health not distinguishing between two materially different activities and their associated industries.
It doesn't seem we're heading for a flavour ban just yet, but that element of the proposed US regulations does irk me. Sure, the flavour compounds will remain available in principle, but what will be the effect of the Capellas and FlavorWests of the food additives industry being disincentivised to produce flavours in PG suspensions, as I assume they currently do? How much motivation will they retain to innovate and improve on flavours implicitly if not explicitly intended for vaping? I don't see much of a market for, say, RY4 Double remaining... Whilst those who DIY may be insulated to some extent the knock-on effect throughout the industry will be that of diminishing community and innovation.
We'll know soon enough whether it's just another storm in a teacup. As a fairly fresh convert still enjoying the novelty of my rejuvenated lung capacity, I certainly hope it is.
This is the problem, though. In every country that has regulated vaping, there have been outcries that vaping has effectively been banned and that it's time for armed revolution. On Aug 8 2016, Heathen Billy was literally almost in tears as he announced the end of vaping in the US, invoked the spirit of the Founding Fathers and told viewers it was perhaps time to take up arms because "our freedom of speech has been denied". Two years later, he's still reviewing as he always did, has his own line of Dead Rabbit drippers out, and life is seemingly good for him. So why all the doom and gloom?
We saw the same thing in the EU with the TPD - people saying it was the end of vaping and the evil Brussels government had won. How was it the "end" of vaping? Because vapers now could only buy juice in 10ml bottles? So what? You buy three 10ml bottles and decant into a 30ml bottle. Sorted. Then there was the outcry over 2ml tanks. So you buy an atty with a 2ml tank fitted and you swap out for the spare 5ml glass provided in the kit. It takes thirty seconds. Really, was this the apocalypse that vapers were lamenting? It was a minor inconvenience, nothing more.
I don't see anything in these regs that removes or even impedes my right to vape. Speaking as a vaper rather than a vendor or manufacturer, my capsule summary of the proposed regs:
White labels: as a DIYer, I mix in bottles and plak a handwritten masking tape label on the bottle. A white printed label would be HE for me. So no problem there.
Sin taxes: as long as it's moderate, I don't mind. I don't want to pay R80 for flavours that used to cost R25. But I'll pay R30 no problem. Vapers are a wealthy demographic generally and a tiny minority. So we are an obvious target for taxation, the masses will be very enthusiastic about us being taxed rather than a VAT hike. I don't like it but to expect to escape taxation would be unrealistic.
No vaping in public: no problem. I rarely take my vape out with me. If I hung out all day in vape shops, it might bother me. But I don't. Do I even vape, bro? If I'm not hot-boxing my mom's Honda Civic, I guess not.
Flavour bans: this hasn't eventuated. But even if it did, it wouldn't affect me as a DIYer. They are not going to ban food flavourings. The food industry uses them.
Bans on testers: no problem. I don't expect Pick n Pay to let me try every brand of marmalade in store before choosing one, I wouldn't expect a vape shop to either. I've never tried a tester in a vape shop. Of course, I've never bought commercial juice either. So there's that.
No marketing: I've never bought a device because the vendor promoted it on their FB page or in-store. I go off reviews mainly, along with an assessment of the features I want/need most. As long as they still allow reviews, that is all the info I need. Seeing as I mostly order online, I'm rarely in vape shops anyway.
Nicotine regulation: depends on what they mean. If they only allow 36mg and only 100ml at a time, for eg, I'll live with that. As long as it's not a blanket prohibition, I'm not fussed. If they get silly and insist it can only be 10ml bottles, such that I have to buy 10 at a time and spend all of five minutes decanting into a 100ml dropper bottle, it will be a PITA. But it's not something I'm going to launch a revolution over.
As a manufacturer or vendor, I may feel differently. But I'm not. For me as a vaper, these regs are pretty tame. There is nothing in there that is an obstacle to my vaping.
But why allow them to stick their noses where they do not belong in the first place? And that is the crux of my frustration. The acceptance of practices that directly contradict the purposes by which they are motivated.
Wasting time and resources on legislation on vaping in a country where the taxes of 40% of the population carry the burden of supporting the other 60%. If you are in a 40% tax bracket, with 15% Vat and all sorts of surcharges and sin taxes on various goods you can claim direct and indirect taxes of over 60%. January to end July I work for government and now they want even more? Why not spend the effort expended on vaping legislation on finding a solution to the employment situation? Talking of employment, how many jobs will the vaping industry shed as a result of this legislation? How many jobs that would have been created in future will now never materialize? How many people with tobacco related diseases vaping could have avoided will now still end up in state hospitals?
This is about more than me and how it affects me. I am not immune to what happens in the rest of the country as in some way, although indirectly, it does come back to haunt me. Less state health expenditure equates to less taxes. More employment means less taxes, less crime and more job opportunities.
Regards
Afaik they always produced in PG for the food industry. Vaping just used FW, TFA and Cap flavours as is for vaping purposes. IOW, vaping used PG because the food industry was already using it, not vice versa. A flavour ban will hurt companies like Flavorah and Vape Train whose client base is mostly vaping and who don't supply the food & beverage sector. Or, at least, aren't established players in that sector. But several companies don't care. LorAnn have made it abundantly clear that they aren't going to reformulate for vaping and if vapers don't like it, they must just stop using LA flavours. They do mega business in the food & beverage sector, they have little interest in vaping. From what I've heard, even TFA is a bit iffy. Flavour Art is the main player who has embraced vaping and spent big bucks developing their vaping line.
I don't think a flavour ban (if it was even possible) would kill the big players like TFA or FW. They might hurt a bit but their business was never founded on vaping. It's just a sideline for them. The candy and food sectors are their big clients. They have spent a bit on formulating tobacco flavours and also removing DAAP, which isn't a requirement for ingested flavours. But they remain food industry suppliers primarily.
This would be my approach to advocacy. Govt don't listen to petitions. The AWB can give them a petition with 100k signatures asking for apartheid to be reinstated. That doesn't mean govt will listen. They have received endless petitions asking for the DP to be reinstated, with lots of signatures. If it isn't in their policy mandate, they laugh it off. But talk jobs and export and you're talking their language. I am assured that the business case is a central pillar of industry advocacy and I hope it is. That doesn't, of itself, mean that govt will listen. Ron Johnson tried the "think of all the mom and pop stores you're putting out of business" approach in the US and the FDA brushed him off. So it's not guaranteed. But it is still the most effective approach imo.
As I see it, the problem is that there is limited scope for local manufacturing in vaping. China kills everybody. Importing Chinese products isn't a win for the importing country, it's a win for China. The US wasn't built on importing Chinese goods so I don't think it was the epitome of Trump's "Make America Great Again" policy. The US was, bizarrely enough, built partly on the export success of their big tobacco and big pharma sectors. So even if vaping was going to create jobs, they weren't really the sort of jobs that Trump envisaged. He wants manufacturing jobs in the US for American products that are exported. Not jobs for shop assistants who sell Chinese imported goods. They already have Walmart for that.
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Ah, but then the figures come in of how many jobs will be lost when the tobacco farmers start closing farms (or change crops to less labour intensive crops like maize or wheat). And then the debate of land comes in again and the whole thing gets sidetracked until we come back to it in a few years at the next tobacco conference.
And done, will be posting this to my social medias throughout the day.
We knew this was coming, for years. and lol at the people who don't expect to be taxed.
My 5c
Nicotine is not addictive on its own.
Flavors don't entice children to become regular vapers.
Only a very tiny percentage of never smokers become regular vapers.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3116468/
https://harmreductionjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12954-018-0229-7
https://vapinglinks.blog/2017/12/18/teen-smoking-rates-drop-gateway-closes-unicorns-unemployed/
http://dailyvaper.com/2018/04/30/science-lesson-what-variables-should-be-controlled-for/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1939993/
Nicotine is not addictive on its own.
Flavors don't entice children to become regular vapers.
Only a very tiny percentage of never smokers become regular vapers.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3116468/
https://harmreductionjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12954-018-0229-7
https://vapinglinks.blog/2017/12/18/teen-smoking-rates-drop-gateway-closes-unicorns-unemployed/
http://dailyvaper.com/2018/04/30/science-lesson-what-variables-should-be-controlled-for/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1939993/
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True, I bought a new mod and just add in my order a 8ml bulb and problem was solved
Juice are a bit different You can buy 50 ml BUT they don't have nic in them
this bottle is 50 ml 70 vg 30 pg and 0 nic
the smaller bottle is so you can make it your nic strength, in this case 0ml nic to 3ml nic
all overseas products are 0 nic and then you add your nic strength
So that bottle is GDP 15.00 and the Nic is GDP 1.00 (local juice)
anyway getting back to the problem at hand, in the UK (Public Health England (PHE))they recognise that Vaping is better
that smoking and they are promote it
https://news.sky.com/story/hospital...-vaping-lounges-health-officials-say-11238429
at the end of the day SA Vaping community needs a heavy weight behind them to take it forward
My 5c worth
Ye, BUT one tobacco country Zimbabwe, have a solution for this
https://www.news24.com/Africa/Zimba...y-high-licence-fee-of-50-000-reports-20180430
Zimbabwe to be the next Jamaic? That will help build tourism like Amsterdam.Ye, BUT one tobacco country Zimbabwe, have a solution for this
https://www.news24.com/Africa/Zimba...y-high-licence-fee-of-50-000-reports-20180430
Keep it cloudy
Sorry, I'm jumping in a bit late, but in response to Imperator's original post and comments:
Does anyone know the reasoning behind the idea of banning testers in stores, or including vape shops under "public spaces" where vaping could (hypothetically) be prohibited?
- Testers: if the thinking behind this is to prevent minors from accessing nicotine, surely checking ID before allowing customers to test e-liquid would make more sense. I mostly DIY, but I still enjoy testing and buying commercial juice (partly to support local commercial mixers, partly because I'm sometimes lazy, partly because it's nice to try someone else's creations). I don't like buying from stores where I can't test before I buy (learnt through bad experience). Same way I wouldn't buy perfume, clothing, or a car without being able to test, try it on, or test-drive.
- Classifying vape shops as public spaces: as far as I understand it, the ban (or in some cases, regulation) of smoking in public spaces is to reduce or prevent non-smokers from being exposed to second-hand smoke and the accompanying health risks. I can see the sense in it. Now, putting the vastly reduced risk of second-hand vapour inhalation aside for a moment, who would you be protecting in a vape shop? Why would you go there if you don't vape yourself? I know some people take their friends / partners who don't vape there, but it seems logical that by entering that space, you're choosing to take the (minimal) "risk" of exposing yourself to vapour. These are venues that exist for no other purpose than vaping (and seeling vaping goods). While I can understand someone saying "I want to be able to have a meal in a restaurant without being exposed to someone else's cigarette smoke," it'd seem silly to say "I want to hang out in a vape shop without being exposed to vaping."
A sensible amount of regulation of the industry seems okay - I'd be happy if that could help regulate fake juice and things like that. But some of these suggested measures seem silly.
Does anyone know the reasoning behind the idea of banning testers in stores, or including vape shops under "public spaces" where vaping could (hypothetically) be prohibited?
- Testers: if the thinking behind this is to prevent minors from accessing nicotine, surely checking ID before allowing customers to test e-liquid would make more sense. I mostly DIY, but I still enjoy testing and buying commercial juice (partly to support local commercial mixers, partly because I'm sometimes lazy, partly because it's nice to try someone else's creations). I don't like buying from stores where I can't test before I buy (learnt through bad experience). Same way I wouldn't buy perfume, clothing, or a car without being able to test, try it on, or test-drive.
- Classifying vape shops as public spaces: as far as I understand it, the ban (or in some cases, regulation) of smoking in public spaces is to reduce or prevent non-smokers from being exposed to second-hand smoke and the accompanying health risks. I can see the sense in it. Now, putting the vastly reduced risk of second-hand vapour inhalation aside for a moment, who would you be protecting in a vape shop? Why would you go there if you don't vape yourself? I know some people take their friends / partners who don't vape there, but it seems logical that by entering that space, you're choosing to take the (minimal) "risk" of exposing yourself to vapour. These are venues that exist for no other purpose than vaping (and seeling vaping goods). While I can understand someone saying "I want to be able to have a meal in a restaurant without being exposed to someone else's cigarette smoke," it'd seem silly to say "I want to hang out in a vape shop without being exposed to vaping."
A sensible amount of regulation of the industry seems okay - I'd be happy if that could help regulate fake juice and things like that. But some of these suggested measures seem silly.
Partly. The other aspect is to make smoking less visible. It's a key pillar of the strategy to de-glamourise smoking and take it out of the public consciousness.
This whole nanny state thing is ridiculous, government has no right to tell me what I can do on my own to myself as long as it doesn't affect anyone else. We are already taxed to hell and back in this country without getting any benefit for it, yes taxes in other countries is higher on income but you get value out of it that wee never see and most of those countries are reducing VAT not increasing it as we have done.
Health research also changes every 2 weeks on what will cause or stop cancer etc, the only laws there should be is warnings let people be able to make an informed choice and then bloody leave them alone. I may have a better outlook on these things if there wasn't a ridiculously high chance of getting violently attacked and my life cut short just going to the shops, go fix that and keep your hands off of the things that makes living worth it. Next thing we know we won't only have sugar tax but everything we buy will have to be in plain packaging to keep us from making a choice when buying food. Why don't we just make everyone paint houses and buildings grey, bright colours may be a distraction and cause road accidents....
Where does this rubbish interference stop?
Health research also changes every 2 weeks on what will cause or stop cancer etc, the only laws there should be is warnings let people be able to make an informed choice and then bloody leave them alone. I may have a better outlook on these things if there wasn't a ridiculously high chance of getting violently attacked and my life cut short just going to the shops, go fix that and keep your hands off of the things that makes living worth it. Next thing we know we won't only have sugar tax but everything we buy will have to be in plain packaging to keep us from making a choice when buying food. Why don't we just make everyone paint houses and buildings grey, bright colours may be a distraction and cause road accidents....
Where does this rubbish interference stop?
Signed. Now we wait and see.
What really irritates me is the number of requests/ads for people to sign the petition. No harm in the petition per se, though I don't think it will have any effect. It's just irritating being asked time and again to sign. On Facebook many of the groups and vendors which I followed have posted, asking people to sign. I've now unfollowed all of these vendors (some of whom are our supporting vendors) and that to me is sad.
I see no harm in “fighting” certain thing that we consider right, they want to have plain white labels yet cigarette boxes are pretty colourful. So yes ill sign every thing i can so that maybe just maybe we do win in some aspects.
Not everything in life suits everybody.
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Cigarettes also face plain packaging, it's the next step in the global campaign against tobacco marketing. If I was a manufacturer, I wouldn't like it because it doesn't allow me to differentiate my brand. As a consumer, it doesn't bother me. I just got in a bunch of DIY concentrates from TFM and they all came with white TFM labels. I'm most distressed by this. I think next time I'll ask Erica to take a koki and draw some Bugs Bunny faces on the labels. The juice is sure to taste much better then.
That said, I can understand their point. If vaping is a life-saving technology, it doesn't need pretty labels. If I get life-saving pills from my doctor, I don't mind in the slightest that the pharmacist gives them to me in a plain white box or plastic bottle with just a pharmacy label stuck on it. I'm taking them to save my life, not to be a brand-conscious yuppie. However, a product that is visually unappealing to kids may serve to deter some of them from trying it. It's not going to solve smoking but making the product appearance as bland as possible is one small step among many to help deter people from starting. So it's probably worth a shot.
That said, I can understand their point. If vaping is a life-saving technology, it doesn't need pretty labels. If I get life-saving pills from my doctor, I don't mind in the slightest that the pharmacist gives them to me in a plain white box or plastic bottle with just a pharmacy label stuck on it. I'm taking them to save my life, not to be a brand-conscious yuppie. However, a product that is visually unappealing to kids may serve to deter some of them from trying it. It's not going to solve smoking but making the product appearance as bland as possible is one small step among many to help deter people from starting. So it's probably worth a shot.
I also don't understand why plain white labelling should be an issue (with the exception of Flower Power of course! @BaD Mountain). In fact, I re-label all my juice with plain, white labels. Why? For a few reasons:
Firstly, most of the time the name of the juice doesn't give any indication as to what flavour it is. When I feel like vaping a particular flavour, THAT is what I'm looking for. I don't care whose brand it is. (N.B. only the juices which I like are in my juice cupboard. The others go into the PIF box).
Secondly, the VG/PG isn't clearly marked (if at all). The VG/PG is important to me. Most juice is 70/30, but I have two devices which can not be used with anything over 60/40. Furthermore, if a juice is 80/20, I won't use it on a new coil - let it rather clog up a coil which has already been used, even if there is some flavour-ghosting.
Finally, the nic isn't clearly marked. The juice in my cupboard ranges from 3mg - 18mg. I need to know which bottle I'm picking up!!
I would be extremely happy to have plain, white labels which show all the info in clear text, which doesn't require a magnifier to read it.
Here's an example of what I've been discussing.
THEIR LABEL
MY LABEL
Here's my fancy labels:
Can't get more authentic than that. No commercial label looks remotely close to it.
Can't get more authentic than that. No commercial label looks remotely close to it.
I come from at least 20 stinkies a day on a minimum for about 17 odd years, started vaping on 6mg, now a year in i vape only 2mg or 3mg, consumption is no more than it was when i started with the 6mg, if i have a 6mg I feel it after a tank, I am all lekke lekke, so 3mg is max for me
I can also safely say, after lighting up a MOODS vanilla over the weekend (something that I really enjoyed as a treat in my smoking days) that I WILL NEVER smoke on the regular again, I could get past 4 drags on the MOODS, and chucked it in the bin, SMOKING BOOO
Vaping not only helped me quit smoking, it gave me the ability to walk more than 10 metres without feeling the need to take a pit stop, my house my car, my study where i spend 80% of my times smells and looks better, no more ash or ashtrays, it is out and out a disgusting filthy habbit, and maybe the bigger local industry leaders should go have a sit down, with HODs or even the Minister himself and force feed him some research.
and I'm always grateful that @Michael van Jaarsveld introduced me to my first vape experience
yes i have signed
I can also safely say, after lighting up a MOODS vanilla over the weekend (something that I really enjoyed as a treat in my smoking days) that I WILL NEVER smoke on the regular again, I could get past 4 drags on the MOODS, and chucked it in the bin, SMOKING BOOO
Vaping not only helped me quit smoking, it gave me the ability to walk more than 10 metres without feeling the need to take a pit stop, my house my car, my study where i spend 80% of my times smells and looks better, no more ash or ashtrays, it is out and out a disgusting filthy habbit, and maybe the bigger local industry leaders should go have a sit down, with HODs or even the Minister himself and force feed him some research.
and I'm always grateful that @Michael van Jaarsveld introduced me to my first vape experience
yes i have signed
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