10 times more cancerous than tobacco

[toke]

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Regional/2014/11/27/Ecigarettes-have-10-times-carcinogens/

if you read closley "some" of the juices contain these elements causing cancer.. i bet its all the fake liqua juices on the market.

think im still safe with my DIY mixes tho

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/health/e-cigarettes-have-10/1496560.html?cid=cna_flip_070214

 

[Silver]

Thanks for sharing @toke

So confusing

I recall some research a while back showing the exact opposite. That there were way more of the dangerous chemicals in smoke than vapour.

Any research like this is definitely worrying. But I suppose until we see their research paper and understand how their tests were done and with what equipment and liquid we will never know the truth.

Lets all try keep a watchful eye on this Japanese study and see what comes of it, if anything.

 

[BigGuy]

It is more than likely some CHINA MALL crap. Which has been made to make a quick buck.

 

[ConradS]

No doubt an issue with some unscrupulous manufacturers. I have seen eliquids for sale for as low as R18 for 10ml. Who knows what is in there. Like it or not - this market will eventually be regulated by public health bodies as more sharks try to make a quick buck.

 

[Gazzacpt]

I'll start worrying when its independent research pointing this out. Right now its a government paid for research paper and unless we know how the test was conducted they could have made the test to get a result they wanted. I'm ignoring this till I see a reseach doc.

 

[Nooby]

Wish we could just get the real facts once and for all... 'If' it is very bad for us, then I'm definitely stopping.

 

[Silver]

Wish we could just get the real facts once and for all... 'If' it is very bad for us, then I'm definitely stopping.

This is precisely why one needs to follow people like Dr Farsalinos
He is trying hard to do lots of proper tests.

His closing message to us was "Good luck and be patient. We are fighting for the truth to prevail, and it will."

You can read more about his message to us with a link to a website containing his research here:
http://www.ecigssa.co.za/threads/a-message-from-dr-farsalinos-to-us-ecigs-sa-vapers.6273/

 

[Alex]

I think this may be the paper in question.
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/analsci/29/12/29_1219/_pdf

and here
http://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/11/11/11192/pdf

 

[Silver]

I think this may be the paper in question.
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/analsci/29/12/29_1219/_pdf

and here
http://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/11/11/11192/pdf

Wow @Alex, well found!
Its unclear what ecigs they used but on the 3rd page it says that 4 out of the 13 they tried did not produce any "carbonyl" compounds. Strange that nine did but four didnt. Pity they didnt disclose the brands. The photo of the atomiser looks like they were using cig-alikes.

 

[Achmat89]

They will do anything to scare us, i don't believe it so much because its so convenient that they say "Neither the scientist nor anyone from the health ministry were immediately available to confirm the report"

Which obviously means this could just be speculation. I think they want us to quit so we could relapse back to cigs. Remember the Government would do anything to keep us making them dollars.
Same like cannabis was made illegal because of the oil companies, same goes for this.

http://loveforlife.com.au/content/0...illegal-doug-yurchey-2005-posted-wes-penre-il

Oh well that's just my opinion

 

[Silver]

They will do anything to scare us, i don't believe it so much because its so convenient that they say "Neither the scientist nor anyone from the health ministry were immediately available to confirm the report"

Which obviously means this could just be speculation. I think they want us to quit so we could relapse back to cigs. Remember the Government would do anything to keep us making them dollars.
Same like cannabis was made illegal because of the oil companies, same goes for this.

http://loveforlife.com.au/content/0...illegal-doug-yurchey-2005-posted-wes-penre-il

Oh well that's just my opinion

I hear you @Achmat88
And I do tend to agree with you. But then again, I am biased. i want to believe that vaping is safer.

It does sound strange though to come out with research that says there is higher concentration of carcinogens in vapour than smoke. Especially given that most other research so far that I have seen says the opposite.

Lets see - but definitely we need to watch out for the research that comes out

 

[Achmat89]

I hear you @Achmat88
And I do tend to agree with you. But then again, I am biased. i want to believe that vaping is safer.

It does sound strange though to come out with research that says there is higher concentration of carcinogens in vapour than smoke. Especially given that most other research so far that I have seen says the opposite.

Lets see - but definitely we need to watch out for the research that comes out

I suppose we just have to wait and see bro, took scientists about 20 years to discover that cigarettes could lead to cancer.
I am too confused but i think it's impossible for vg and pg to really mess you up. The big question is, what is the flavour made of?? @Silver

 

[Alex]

Wow @Alex, well found!
Its unclear what ecigs they used but on the 3rd page it says that 4 out of the 13 they tried did not produce any "carbonyl" compounds. Strange that nine did but four didnt. Pity they didnt disclose the brands. The photo of the atomiser looks like they were using cig-alikes.

Don't know if you noticed on the second one our Dr Farsalinos is mentioned http://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/11/11/11192/pdf

 

[Andre]

If I remember correctly, the study used machines to puff/blow on the vapes, not humans. And the coils and wicks were burnt black! As many commentators pointed out, if you burn it you are going to get carbonyl compounds. No vaper in his/her right mind would vape on a burnt coil/wick.

 

[Alex]

If I remember correctly, the study used machines to puff/blow on the vapes, not humans. And the coils and wicks were burnt black! As many commentators pointed out, if you burn it you are going to get carbonyl compounds. No vaper in his/her right mind would vape on a burnt coil/wick.

Indeed

 

[Achmat89]

Once you get that shitty taste you know its time for a fresh build/coil.
Nothing more mouth/lung-gasmic like a fresh coil

 

[Danny]

I dont see the justification behind the comparison. Those devices arent a fair comparison. The data is presented against nothing comparitive either, where are the comparitive stats measured on the same equipment that they measured. Stats like comparison between normal smoke, e cig vapour and normal breath, negative and positive control groups etc.
Great they found dangerous chemicals in some e cigs but have given no real statistical standpoint relative to the other evils. Those data may very well be significantly different to normal smoke, without proving it accurately they are nothing but numbers to me. I must read it all again but imo well funded but somewhat sloppy science, the one paper doesnt even give the methodology!

 

[Alex]

I dont see the justification behind the comparison. Those devices arent a fair comparison. The data is presented against nothing comparitive either, where are the comparitive stats measured on the same equipment that they measured. Stats like comparison between normal smoke, e cig vapour and normal breath, negative and positive control groups etc.
Great they found dangerous chemicals in some e cigs but have given no real statistical standpoint relative to the other evils. Those data may very well be significantly different to normal smoke, without proving it accurately they are nothing but numbers to me. I must read it all again but imo well funded but somewhat sloppy science, the one paper doesnt even give the methodology!

I was hoping that someone could decipher some of the gr33k.

Thank you

 

[Silver]

Don't know if you noticed on the second one our Dr Farsalinos is mentioned http://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/11/11/11192/pdf

Wow @Alex - I didn't see that. Well spotted!
Dr Farsalinos is mentioned as the external editor of the research.
That changes it for me radically.

I wonder what the various brands were that were tested....

 

[Andre]

Wow @Alex - I didn't see that. Well spotted!
Dr Farsalinos is mentioned as the external editor of the research.
That changes it for me radically.

I wonder what the various brands were that were tested....

Not for me, still bad research. Send him a note and ask about this study?

 

[Silver]

On a totally separate note, I saw this video on Dr Farsalinos' FB page where he was interviewed on Greek TV
Unfortunately it is in Greek. Would have loved to know what he said in essence
Its only about 4 minutes - maybe our @Yiannaki or @paulph201 would care to listen and give us a basic overview of what was said.

 

[Silver]

Not for me, still bad research. Send him a note and ask about this study?

Have sent him a note @Andre
Will report back if he replies

 

[Paulie]

On a totally separate note, I saw this video on Dr Farsalinos' FB page where he was interviewed on Greek TV
Unfortunately it is in Greek. Would have loved to know what he said in essence
Its only about 4 minutes - maybe our @Yiannaki or @paulph201 would care to listen and give us a basic overview of what was said.

alll greek to me

@Yiannaki will have to help my greek as bad as my english

 

[Yiannaki]

alll greek to me

@Yiannaki will have to help my greek as bad as my english

Will check it out after lunch and translate!

 

[Danny]

After reading again and looking at the numbers the studies seem valid. The review certainly was edited by dr farsalino but I have to say I find the interaction there to be concerning. In a sense he does risk becoming just as badly biased as the anti ecig advocates, but that's irrelevant to this really.

Looking at the study it is actually a push for better regulation of manufacture than a condeming, significant health concern. For all of the brands tested more individual units produced low levels (safer) of carbonyls, quite a few of them had a high number of tested units that produced unacceptably high amounts of carbonyls and the reason why actually becomes very clear in the pictures. Juice contents will play a role, and research will make juice safer eventually but the big problem here seems to be burning juice and we all know burning anything and inhaling it is bad.

Units that produced high levels of bad stuff ended up with blackened coils etc much like when you burn your own juice, that to me at least is probably the result of poor quality standards in terms of battery regulation, wire quality and atomiser build quality. The juice in all the units from one manufacturer would most likely be from one source and be identical across all the devices (except maybe in flavour). The devices themselves not so much as they are subject to errors and variance in assembly. The original research paper almost touches on it in the discussion. To me it stands to reason that clearly the difference between the low and high devices is not only the output of carbonyls but also something about how the atomisers function, or with the power supply. Clearly not every ecig tested produced the carbonyls at all, so it is an important piece of research in terms of developing safer manufacturing standards, and if it could do away with environmentally irresponsible cig a like devices good, big tobacco loves its cig a likes.

For us open device users with tanks and RDAs change and check your coils often enough to avoid gunking, avoid dry hits, if you use commercial coils buy from reputable sources and check the quality yourself by checking your dead coils for blackening and burning. So basically do everything you already do to enjoy vaping and I wouldnt panic at all. Vaping really needs the temp regulated devices they should be able to help improve safety a whole lot.