From personal experience, and having visited a number of nz vape shops, that information is not current.
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And if you visit shops like shosa in NZ.. they all stock nic juices
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I remember reading on reddit that in Aus, you cannot sell ejuice containing nic, but they sell something which I though was quite cool, a doubler, I believe it's a very strong juice which is meant to be diluted by half, and they add their own nic. I can't say if you can buy nic there though.
On a different note, this is not even the government intervening. It's the card processors
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I have to say, I don't really get the point of the doubler thing. I heard about it on a NZ vaping site which offers this advice:
So if I buy a 50ml doubler, I have to add 50ml liquid nicotine to get a finished juice. If you add 50ml of 36mg nic (the type we normally buy here) to a 50ml doubler, you will have 100ml of 18mg final juice. Take a deep lung hit on your Cloud Beast with that, and you will pull a Silver of note. Don't even get me started on 100mg nic.
So it seems you would have to buy 6mg nic if you want your juice to be the 3mg variety that most DIYers like. Now, I ask you with tears in my eyes, who sells 6mg per ml nic?!? Liquid Barn, for eg, only sells 48mg or 100mg nic. So you'd end up with a juice that is at least 24mg. Oooeee, that is going to bring tears to your eyes. This must be for cigalikes. There is no way you can vape that in a tank or dripper.
The other problem is that it will mess with your VG/PG ratios. The doubler contains VG, PG and flavouring (presumably PG). So you will have a mix that is at least part PG. Now you add PG nic to that? You will get a juice that is well over 50% PG, i.e. as runny as piss. I suppose you could add VG nic to get a mostly VG juice, or 50/50 nic to get a roughly 50/50 juice. But jeez, it's awkward. Just give me PG nic, PG, VG and flavours, and I'll create my juice to my own nic strength, flavour strength and VG/PG preferences. I'm so glad we don't have to jump through these hoops here.
So if I buy a 50ml doubler, I have to add 50ml liquid nicotine to get a finished juice. If you add 50ml of 36mg nic (the type we normally buy here) to a 50ml doubler, you will have 100ml of 18mg final juice. Take a deep lung hit on your Cloud Beast with that, and you will pull a Silver of note. Don't even get me started on 100mg nic.
So it seems you would have to buy 6mg nic if you want your juice to be the 3mg variety that most DIYers like. Now, I ask you with tears in my eyes, who sells 6mg per ml nic?!? Liquid Barn, for eg, only sells 48mg or 100mg nic. So you'd end up with a juice that is at least 24mg. Oooeee, that is going to bring tears to your eyes. This must be for cigalikes. There is no way you can vape that in a tank or dripper.
The other problem is that it will mess with your VG/PG ratios. The doubler contains VG, PG and flavouring (presumably PG). So you will have a mix that is at least part PG. Now you add PG nic to that? You will get a juice that is well over 50% PG, i.e. as runny as piss. I suppose you could add VG nic to get a mostly VG juice, or 50/50 nic to get a roughly 50/50 juice. But jeez, it's awkward. Just give me PG nic, PG, VG and flavours, and I'll create my juice to my own nic strength, flavour strength and VG/PG preferences. I'm so glad we don't have to jump through these hoops here.
I hear you, I don't know about the advise on that site, sounds crazy, but the discussion on reddit the guy said he just buys 36mg nic and mixes that with vg/pg dependant on the ratio he wants and adds it to the doubler. I too am glad I don't have to go through all that effort though and much prefer mixing from scratch, that being said, if we had no other options I'm sure we would have adapted to it
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Unfortunately EFT isn't an option for everyone. For me living up here an EFT is a non-starter, the government is deliberately putting EFT's on an indefinite wait, to try and stop hard currency leaving the country. So paying by Visa card is my only option. Granted I'm just 1 guy, but for perspective i've dropped around R40k+ on vaping with SA vendors in the last 6 months, nothing to sniff at.
having the same issue my side @Schnappie
i'm so screwed if another payment gateway can't be implemented
So I saw this. They allow Twisp???
There are actually several online cigar shops in SA serviced by PayFast in clear contravention of the laws so it's a bloody nerve for them to dictate to those who are well within it.
For doing e-commerce, one platform that can be very useful is Jumpseller ( www.Jumpseller.com ), which has full integration with Payfast. Do check it out!
I havent had any problems so far. It all seems to be working my side ok.
I could shaddup and quickly sell my business before the other shoe drops, like I didn't at the start of the 2007 Sub-Prime crash, but it's not my style, and I am part of this community.
So it seems Payfast is clamping down. Our credit/debit card facility will be shut down COB 12/6/2017.
Seeing as 80% of our sales are credit/debit card that may be a fatal blow.
Other payment processors, both locally and internationally will be similarly affected as this is not a Payfast thing, it's Mastercard and Visa setting the rules. These rules are being set due to the FDA's Deeming regulations.
EFT will still be available until the SA government moves on them. If the FDA Deeming regs are withdrawn, as they may, then all this will go away. But in the meantime the question is the size of the impact. Without CC facility it will be very substantial, which will force prices up and choice down significantly. A lot of healthy competition is set to disappear. Very bad news for the vaper.
Until the SA gov moves to ban all online sales, things will limp on with EFT. Sales will drop drastically though, and many vendors may disappear. When the SA gov outlaws all sales online, it is going to affect everybody - online vendors, brick n mortar shops (will effectively be tied to their own geo area bar maybe a trickle of workarounds) vaper's choice will crash and costs skyrocket. Everybody loses when competition dies.
The last hope is the FDA Deeming regs being scrapped. Else we will have a severely crippled market. All kind of little workarounds will appear, but costs will rise and choice will crash. The non-forum man-in-the-street vaper will find it very hard to motivate their continued cigarette quitting attempt.
Sad, but unless we as the vaping community can come up with a workable solution for everybody in the community and not just little inefficient workarounds per individual, we will all be seriously affected.
We really need to pool ideas urgently. If I manage an efficient workaround and say 'Hey, this gives me a competitive advantage!' and the rest of the industry dies slowly, the vapers will also start giving up and my 'competitive advantage' will turn to a tombstone for my business. We all rely on a vibrant vaping community - vapers and traders alike.
So it seems Payfast is clamping down. Our credit/debit card facility will be shut down COB 12/6/2017.
Seeing as 80% of our sales are credit/debit card that may be a fatal blow.
Other payment processors, both locally and internationally will be similarly affected as this is not a Payfast thing, it's Mastercard and Visa setting the rules. These rules are being set due to the FDA's Deeming regulations.
EFT will still be available until the SA government moves on them. If the FDA Deeming regs are withdrawn, as they may, then all this will go away. But in the meantime the question is the size of the impact. Without CC facility it will be very substantial, which will force prices up and choice down significantly. A lot of healthy competition is set to disappear. Very bad news for the vaper.
Until the SA gov moves to ban all online sales, things will limp on with EFT. Sales will drop drastically though, and many vendors may disappear. When the SA gov outlaws all sales online, it is going to affect everybody - online vendors, brick n mortar shops (will effectively be tied to their own geo area bar maybe a trickle of workarounds) vaper's choice will crash and costs skyrocket. Everybody loses when competition dies.
The last hope is the FDA Deeming regs being scrapped. Else we will have a severely crippled market. All kind of little workarounds will appear, but costs will rise and choice will crash. The non-forum man-in-the-street vaper will find it very hard to motivate their continued cigarette quitting attempt.
Sad, but unless we as the vaping community can come up with a workable solution for everybody in the community and not just little inefficient workarounds per individual, we will all be seriously affected.
We really need to pool ideas urgently. If I manage an efficient workaround and say 'Hey, this gives me a competitive advantage!' and the rest of the industry dies slowly, the vapers will also start giving up and my 'competitive advantage' will turn to a tombstone for my business. We all rely on a vibrant vaping community - vapers and traders alike.
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We are for now, we are still trying to figure out a solution...
So have they definitely given you the red light also?
Online shopping is now and the future. I don't think the government is going to ban progress as they are going to suffer a lot from it with reduced tax. Think of Take A Lot, Spree, Superbalist etc suddenly not being able to sell online? They are exclusively online businesses.
Then the likes of PnP online, Dion Wired, Makro, Incredible Connection, Direct Deals etc all moving to online sales. On top of that, nearly all holiday/vacation and airline tickets are purchased via card. Then there's things like GooglePlay and iStore for games, apps, content. Services like Netflix, ShowMax that rely very heavy on online card payments. I'm not sure were you got this information from?
Payfast is not the only means of payment. All those companies mentioned at the top are owned by the group I work for which would not exist if such a thing happened so you can be sure we won't let it happen and the government would rather work with us than shutdown the biggest thing they have in this country. We already make use of alternative payment methods from WeChat, SnapScan, Vouchers, Bitcoin, even mPesa and other mobile money alternatives from airtime in other countries so it's not doom and gloom. It's one payment gateway who hasn't fought back for it's customers and they'll probably be the one to die if they don't protect their customers. I new player will take it's place, hell we own one of those too (PayU) so it might create an opportunity in this country.
Then the likes of PnP online, Dion Wired, Makro, Incredible Connection, Direct Deals etc all moving to online sales. On top of that, nearly all holiday/vacation and airline tickets are purchased via card. Then there's things like GooglePlay and iStore for games, apps, content. Services like Netflix, ShowMax that rely very heavy on online card payments. I'm not sure were you got this information from?
Payfast is not the only means of payment. All those companies mentioned at the top are owned by the group I work for which would not exist if such a thing happened so you can be sure we won't let it happen and the government would rather work with us than shutdown the biggest thing they have in this country. We already make use of alternative payment methods from WeChat, SnapScan, Vouchers, Bitcoin, even mPesa and other mobile money alternatives from airtime in other countries so it's not doom and gloom. It's one payment gateway who hasn't fought back for it's customers and they'll probably be the one to die if they don't protect their customers. I new player will take it's place, hell we own one of those too (PayU) so it might create an opportunity in this country.
Suspension of card processing services
As per recent card scheme (VISA & Mastercard) communication, all merchants in the business of sales relating to ecigarettes, vaping and their accessories are now considered "High Risk" merchants and subject to additional compliance requirements on the part of acquirers and payment processors.
Unfortunately, PayFast and our partner banks cannot process payments for "High Risk" merchants and as a result of this change by the card schemes, it will not be possible for PayFast to continue providing you with card processing services.
While we value your business and this state of affairs is regrettable, we must comply with the card schemes and our partner banks' requirements in this regard and will de-activate card payments on your account with effect from COB 12 June 2017.
We will currently still be able to process payment by non-card payment mechanisms (Instant EFT, bitcoin and mobicred) but all card payment mechanisms (credit, cheque and debit cards) are required to be deactivated as soon as possible. We are providing notice of 3 working weeks in terms of this communication.
Our only recommendation in this regard is that you seek an acquirer (bank) who is able to process transactions for "High Risk" merchants and engage with a payment service provider who is able to process transactions against your own high risk merchant account held with such acquirer.
It should be noted however, that to the best of our knowledge, the majority of acquirers in South Africa do not support high risk merchant processing and you might want to revise your systems, processes and business model to assume that payment by card will no longer be possible in the future.
It should further be noted that, in the United States, the FDA recently set out Deeming Rights (guidelines) that ecigarettes should be classified as "tobacco products". Should South African legislation follow suit (which is likely), the sale of ecigarettes and their accessories (whether they contain nicotine or not) will no longer be allowed online as per the Tobacco Products Control Act, 1993 (Act No. 83 of 1993) which prohibits such.
Should that come to pass, we will be forced to suspend payment processing on your account entirely as the nature of your business will then be deemed illegal under South African Law.
We apologise for this state of affairs, but hope that you understand that the matter is out of our hands and affects all acquirers and payment service providers providing card services from VISA and Mastercard.
Our customer services team is available to answer questions you may have in this regard, but this communication is intended to be as comprehensive as possible regarding this matter and it is unlikely that they will be able to provide any further information than has not already been provided here. They will also, regrettably, be unable to offer an extension to the deadline communicated above.
If you feel that you are being sent this notice incorrectly, and your account with PayFast is not involved with sales relating to ecigarettes, vaping and their accessories, please do contact our customer services team and inform them of such as soon as possible.
As per recent card scheme (VISA & Mastercard) communication, all merchants in the business of sales relating to ecigarettes, vaping and their accessories are now considered "High Risk" merchants and subject to additional compliance requirements on the part of acquirers and payment processors.
Unfortunately, PayFast and our partner banks cannot process payments for "High Risk" merchants and as a result of this change by the card schemes, it will not be possible for PayFast to continue providing you with card processing services.
While we value your business and this state of affairs is regrettable, we must comply with the card schemes and our partner banks' requirements in this regard and will de-activate card payments on your account with effect from COB 12 June 2017.
We will currently still be able to process payment by non-card payment mechanisms (Instant EFT, bitcoin and mobicred) but all card payment mechanisms (credit, cheque and debit cards) are required to be deactivated as soon as possible. We are providing notice of 3 working weeks in terms of this communication.
Our only recommendation in this regard is that you seek an acquirer (bank) who is able to process transactions for "High Risk" merchants and engage with a payment service provider who is able to process transactions against your own high risk merchant account held with such acquirer.
It should be noted however, that to the best of our knowledge, the majority of acquirers in South Africa do not support high risk merchant processing and you might want to revise your systems, processes and business model to assume that payment by card will no longer be possible in the future.
It should further be noted that, in the United States, the FDA recently set out Deeming Rights (guidelines) that ecigarettes should be classified as "tobacco products". Should South African legislation follow suit (which is likely), the sale of ecigarettes and their accessories (whether they contain nicotine or not) will no longer be allowed online as per the Tobacco Products Control Act, 1993 (Act No. 83 of 1993) which prohibits such.
Should that come to pass, we will be forced to suspend payment processing on your account entirely as the nature of your business will then be deemed illegal under South African Law.
We apologise for this state of affairs, but hope that you understand that the matter is out of our hands and affects all acquirers and payment service providers providing card services from VISA and Mastercard.
Our customer services team is available to answer questions you may have in this regard, but this communication is intended to be as comprehensive as possible regarding this matter and it is unlikely that they will be able to provide any further information than has not already been provided here. They will also, regrettably, be unable to offer an extension to the deadline communicated above.
If you feel that you are being sent this notice incorrectly, and your account with PayFast is not involved with sales relating to ecigarettes, vaping and their accessories, please do contact our customer services team and inform them of such as soon as possible.
All the above doesn't apply. The issue is FDA Deeming regs - deeming vaping equipment, juice and accessories as tobacco products. Even 0mg juice, or coil wire. The issue is not payment processor related, it's Visa and Mastercard.
In itself the vaping industry in SA will not motivate a new player in the cc or even 'high risk' processor arena, the market is way too small.
All the various bits and pieces of mickey mouse payment players will never sustain an industry. Bitcoin? We take bitcoin. Never had a transaction on it.
The only possible option I can see at the moment is international high risk payment processors. Problem - their names are unknown to local consumers, thus no user confidence or trust in an online transaction, and very high fees plus fx fees etc. All again pushing prices up and transactions down.
Currently the last option is the only semi-viable option I can see.
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And then it happened !!!
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