Hufflepuff - Part 2

Intuthu Kagesi said:
I know we have at least one law professional in this group, and maybe they would like to chime in here? ....

In S.A we enjoy the right to freedom of expression, but it is important to remember that this right is limited. When one oversteps the limitations, it can lead to the defamation of another person’s name and reputation, and I'd like to issue a caution here;

Defamation is a part of the law of delict and can be defined as ANY damaging statements made publicly with the intention to harm or do damage to someone’s name and or reputation. In order for a person to succeed in a delictual claim of defamation, there are certain elements that must be present. The elements include wrongfulness, intention and the publication of a defamatory statement, or behaviour towards another. Note that the law DOES NOT require the statement to be false in any way!

These three elements that must be present;
Wrongfulness, as an element of defamation, is the infringement of a person’s right to his good name and reputation. It is irrelevant whether the person involved has suffered damages once the element of wrongfulness has been established. The appropriate test for wrongfulness will be the objective “reasonable man test".
In South African law, the onus of proof is on the person claiming that an act of defamation has occurred and he or she must submit proof that the violation was indeed wrongful. It is NOT one of the requirements of defamation for the statements or actions to be false. Defamatory words that are true can also be actionable.

The person making the defamatory statements must have had an intentional focus or will to damage another person’s reputation. Be it by statements or comments, he or she must have known at the time that what they were doing would be harmful to another person’s good name. The defendant in a defamation claim must raise a defence which proves that the element of unlawfulness or intention was never present.

Generally, the good name, respect or status of a person depends on the opinion others have of him or her and the core of defamation is the infringement of one’s good name. When defamatory statements or behaviour have been published or a third party has been informed of the information, defamation arises. When a third party isn’t made aware of the defamatory statements or actions relating to a person, his or her reputation cannot suffer damages. Therefore, publication is an important element of defamation.

Generally, this requirement is met if the statements or actions are made known to at least one other person other than the plaintiff himself/herself. Once the element of publication is established, the onus is on the plaintiff to prove that the defendant was responsible for the publication of such statement(s). Any person who repeats or merely confirms these defamatory statements can indirectly be held responsible for the publication thereof. It is not only the person who initially made the defamatory statements public, but also any other person who repeats or confirms it, who can be held responsible for the damage to a person’s reputation.

If the matter is heard in court, the two conflicting constitutional rights of dignity and privacy with that of the right to freedom of expression will be weighed up considering the facts, nonetheless ... Is important thing to remember is that even though we enjoy the right to freedom of expression, this right is not absolute, and we must be mindful when exercising this right!
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I thought Valdemort ( he whom must not be mentioned ) was a fictional character. Am I mistaken?

Regards
 
Intuthu Kagesi said:
The SAP, as I understand the status quo, seem to prefer a charge being laid by members of the public, as then they don't need to investigate.
They can rely on the evidence provided by the complainant, along with the public prosecutors yay or nay, (which is dependent upon the evidence provided), to which they then simply arrest and deliver to court.
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True, I reported a crime and our best in blue would do nothing unless I was able to identify (Name and Address) the culprit. Awesome service SAPS and Cape Town Metro Police!

Perhaps we need more laws.

Regards
 
This showed up on my Facebook memories today, had a good laugh and then remembered that he re-emerged on the forum and thought I would share it with you guys :p

lol.png
 
geeez, so these clowns have been around a long time
 
Raindance said:
True, I reported a crime and our best in blue would do nothing unless I was able to identify (Name and Address) the culprit. Awesome service SAPS and Cape Town Metro Police!

Perhaps we need more laws.

Regards
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I saw this interesting quote recently.
We have a over abundance of laws but a complete absence of justice. It's true! Especially since covid and lockdowns.
 
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Raindance said:
True, I reported a crime and our best in blue would do nothing unless I was able to identify (Name and Address) the culprit. Awesome service SAPS and Cape Town Metro Police!

Perhaps we need more laws.

Regards
Click to expand...

So, if you are not able to name the culprit, then what do you want the police to do? Could you give them ANYTHING to go on?
 
zadiac said:
So, if you are not able to name the culprit, then what do you want the police to do? Could you give them ANYTHING to go on?
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Most crimes you wouldn't know names and addresses, that's for the police to try and find out when they investigate, it's called "Police Work", that's what the Police are supposed to do!
 
They won't investigate a murder unless the victim gives a written statement.

ouija-main-1000x600.jpg
 
Timwis said:
Most crimes you wouldn't know names and addresses, that's for the police to try and find out when they investigate, it's called "Police Work", that's what the Police are supposed to do!
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No friend, it only works like that in the movies. If the complainant can't give us ANYTHING to go on, and there are no leads to follow, then it's a dead investigation.
If someone reports a robbery to me with NOTHING from his/her side to go on then the case is closed without further investigation. Most people do not understand how much resources it takes to investigate a case.
We do the initial legwork like ask people in the vicinity if they'd seen or heard anything near where the crime was committed and also reach out to informants, but if that doesn't pan out, then the case is closed, especially if the complainant cannot give us any descriptions, registration numbers, names or anything else. Then there's nothing to go on and we don't. That's how it works outside of the movies.
So, I DO know Police Work as I've done it for 31 years and I tried my best. I know how it works.
 
@zadiac i tend to agree with you in terms of SAPS. But again SA is worryingly understaffed with senior police officers.

Keep in mind that @Timwis is from the UK and their investigation methods as well as police numbers are completely different to what we have.

Unfortunately for every excellent SAPS officer theres 2 corrupt ones. And no im not sucking this out of my thumb. First hand experience.

In not bad mouthing anyone. I have upmost respect for the SAPS and if it wasnt for a Sergeant in the SAPS i would have never found my daughter when the nutter ex kidnapped her, but to compare apples with oranges is not constructive
 
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SmokeyJoe said:
@zadiac i tend to agree with you in terms of SAPS. But again SA is worryingly understaffed with senior police officers.

Keep in mind that @Timwis is from the UK and their investigation methods as well as police numbers are completely different to what we have.

Unfortunately for every excellent SAPS officer theres 2 corrupt ones. And no im not sucking this out of my thumb. First hand experience.

In not bad mouthing anyone. I have upmost respect for the SAPS and if it wasnt for a Sergeant in the SAPS i would have never found my daughter when the nutter ex kidnapped her, but to compare apples with oranges is not constructive
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I did keep that in mind when I answered him and I know it differs vastly in the UK compared to here, but wanting a detective to "pull a suspect out of a hat" is impossible, no matter how hard we try.

There are still some of us "old men" left in the service that joined because it was a calling, but we're farting against the wind at this point and that is why we're all retiring. I finish this year. I've had enough. I've done my part for what it's worth and it's clear that I cannot do anymore. It saddens me, but it's time to leave. I've seen more experienced honest police officers leave last year than ever before. It's scary.
I would have stayed until proper retirement age if it wasn't for my injuries so I'm leaving for medical reasons mostly but also because of internal pressure and politics that we can do nothing about. Trust me, we tried. The bad ones are just too well connected to the bad ones up top.
 
zadiac said:
I did keep that in mind when I answered him and I know it differs vastly in the UK compared to here, but wanting a detective to "pull a suspect out of a hat" is impossible, no matter how hard we try.

There are still some of us "old men" left in the service that joined because it was a calling, but we're farting against the wind at this point and that is why we're all retiring. I finish this year. I've had enough. I've done my part for what it's worth and it's clear that I cannot do anymore. It saddens me, but it's time to leave. I've seen more experienced honest police officers leave last year than ever before. It's scary.
I would have stayed until proper retirement age if it wasn't for my injuries so I'm leaving for medical reasons mostly but also because of internal pressure and politics that we can do nothing about. Trust me, we tried. The bad ones are just too well connected to the bad ones up top.
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I feel you. My uncle was basically forced out of the detective unit after 35 years.

Like you said, you joined for the cause. Which is commendable.
Unfortunately with others, its just a means to an end.

But thank you @zadiac for your service. SAPS members like you will be sorely missed.

I salute you!
 
SmokeyJoe said:
I feel you. My uncle was basically forced out of the detective unit after 35 years.

Like you said, you joined for the cause. Which is commendable.
Unfortunately with others, its just a means to an end.

But thank you @zadiac for your service. SAPS members like you will be sorely missed.

I salute you!
Click to expand...

Your thanks is appreciated sir.
There's one thing I will miss when I leave. The look of relief and/or satisfaction on people's faces when I've helped them, i.e. recovered a stolen vehicle or a missing child or arresting a wrongdoer that harmed them, etc. That was what it was about for me. I've been offered money before by people during my career to do "other" things. I'm proud and glad to say that I've never accepted. Apart from being illegal, it just feels wrong. I'm also proud to say that those that offered me money in the past went straight to the cells after the offer. That was also satisfying. :)

Another thing that annoys me a bit, is that people mistake us and the justice system as being one. It's not. Many criminals go back on the streets because of incompetence and corruption in the justice system. The courts. You have no idea!
I myself once arrested a state prosecutor for corruption and had him convicted. My sister-in-law arrested quite a few prosecutors, magistrates and top cops in her life and brought them to justice. She is a member of the hawks and one of the best detectives in the country. She married my brother a year ago. He also has been a top detective for 33 years now. Runs in the family....lol.

To come back to the point, there are so many corrupt prosecutors and magistrates out there and that makes the jobs of the "straight" police detectives even more challenging. It really looks like a lost cause sometimes.
 
zadiac said:
Your thanks is appreciated sir.
There's one thing I will miss when I leave. The look of relief and/or satisfaction on people's faces when I've helped them, i.e. recovered a stolen vehicle or a missing child or arresting a wrongdoer that harmed them, etc. That was what it was about for me. I've been offered money before by people during my career to do "other" things. I'm proud and glad to say that I've never accepted. Apart from being illegal, it just feels wrong. I'm also proud to say that those that offered me money in the past went straight to the cells after the offer. That was also satisfying. :)

Another thing that annoys me a bit, is that people mistake us and the justice system as being one. It's not. Many criminals go back on the streets because of incompetence and corruption in the justice system. The courts. You have no idea!
I myself once arrested a state prosecutor for corruption and had him convicted. My sister-in-law arrested quite a few prosecutors, magistrates and top cops in her life and brought them to justice. She is a member of the hawks and one of the best detectives in the country. She married my brother a year ago. He also has been a top detective for 33 years now. Runs in the family....lol.

To come back to the point, there are so many corrupt prosecutors and magistrates out there and that makes the jobs of the "straight" police detectives even more challenging. It really looks like a lost cause sometimes.
Click to expand...
I just wish there were more officers like you
 
zadiac said:
I did keep that in mind when I answered him and I know it differs vastly in the UK compared to here, but wanting a detective to "pull a suspect out of a hat" is impossible, no matter how hard we try.

There are still some of us "old men" left in the service that joined because it was a calling, but we're farting against the wind at this point and that is why we're all retiring. I finish this year. I've had enough. I've done my part for what it's worth and it's clear that I cannot do anymore. It saddens me, but it's time to leave. I've seen more experienced honest police officers leave last year than ever before. It's scary.
I would have stayed until proper retirement age if it wasn't for my injuries so I'm leaving for medical reasons mostly but also because of internal pressure and politics that we can do nothing about. Trust me, we tried. The bad ones are just too well connected to the bad ones up top.
Click to expand...

This is truly worrying @zadiac

But on another note - thanks for all your efforts over the past few decades to try keep us safe
I salute you
 
zadiac said:
I did keep that in mind when I answered him and I know it differs vastly in the UK compared to here, but wanting a detective to "pull a suspect out of a hat" is impossible, no matter how hard we try.

There are still some of us "old men" left in the service that joined because it was a calling, but we're farting against the wind at this point and that is why we're all retiring. I finish this year. I've had enough. I've done my part for what it's worth and it's clear that I cannot do anymore. It saddens me, but it's time to leave. I've seen more experienced honest police officers leave last year than ever before. It's scary.
I would have stayed until proper retirement age if it wasn't for my injuries so I'm leaving for medical reasons mostly but also because of internal pressure and politics that we can do nothing about. Trust me, we tried. The bad ones are just too well connected to the bad ones up top.
Click to expand...


College 1993 - left 2005 after I got shot
 
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