Locals ONLY Recipes

[RichJB]

I don't have anything wildly elite or even mid-range. 2x 60W iSticks, a Pico, a Tesla Invader 3 and a Pico Squeeze squonker. I drip mostly so it's the Hadaly, Recoil, CSMNT, Virus, Velocity clone drippers and a Wasp authentic on the Squeeze. On the rare occasions I use a tank, it's normally the iJoy Limitless Plus.

 

[vicTor]

I don't have anything wildly elite or even mid-range. 2x 60W iSticks, a Pico, a Tesla Invader 3 and a Pico Squeeze squonker. I drip mostly so it's the Hadaly, Recoil, CSMNT, Virus, Velocity clone drippers and a Wasp authentic on the Squeeze. On the rare occasions I use a tank, it's normally the iJoy Limitless Plus.

@RichJB thank you, may i ask your preferable flavour profile (s), i know with vaping this not easy to answer, but i lets say, what is your ADV right now ?

 

[Spyro]

Is your flavours

• Diacetyl Free
• Acetyl Propionyl Free
• Acetoin Free

And at what % do you use for creating liquid, do you have certification for above. You don't need to bad mouth local suppliers just to advertise your own store, that's stooping low, you should gain customers by the quality of your product. Please next time you would like to advertise please respect others that put their heart and soul into their products and spend their time productively in advertising their products in a respectful manner.

First off, I have nothing to do with them. I don't even know the name of the lady whom I emailed. I don't really understand where you drew your conclusion from. I didn't badmouth anyone. All I said was that I believe the prices of local flavours to be grossly inflated. Which is fact, not only for concentrates but juices in general. Do you believe a 30ml bottle costs R150 to make? It' costs around R10-R30 depending on ingredients and quality of the manufacturing process as well as scale of production. The reason there is such a high mark-up on juice is because it requires crazy amounts of time and research to perfect a recipe and label. It's a royal pain in the A and extremely time consuming to mass produce juice on your own (Which many locals still do). Once you've gone through all that effort you rightly feel like your juice is worth a bit more than a few bucks. Then there's the cost of advertising and launching too. Lastly because rent and overheads need to be covered by stores. So, although the end price is heavily inflated it's still perfectly justified.

Then there's concentrates...

The cost of LOCAL flavours at non-discounted/ bulk rates is usually R60-R250 per kilo with more exotic flavours asking up to R310p/k.
Here's your proof.

Now I'm not going to break down the cost of running a solely online based concentrates store, but as you can imagine, aside from effort, the costs are relatively low in comparison to the cost of production of end result e-juice. So why are local guys paying so much towards rebottled and rebranded concentrates

I used to mix my own juice and have used almost every local store for concentrates over the past 2 years. The prices vary drastically. I went a step further and contacted every local flavour maker that I could to find the best source for DIY flavours. My search lead me to the affor mentioned site.
I found out with further investigation that this particular site supplies a large portion of the local retail industries flavours - Ever wonder how every 'local' concentrate retailer has a very similar flavour list? Any ways, My point was, without pointing a finger at any individual, that my personal opinion is that purchasing flavours for R60-R400 per kilo and flogging them off at the current market price is, well, k*k. It's business and I fully understand that but it's k*k. And that is why I posted the link. So that people who are interested in DIY and commited enough to the hobby to go and dig up this thread have access to the best quality local juice that I have been able to find.

Just to clear things up:

"Is your flavours

• Diacetyl Free
• Acetyl Propionyl Free
• Acetoin Free

And at what % do you use for creating liquid, do you have certification for above. You don't need to bad mouth local suppliers just to advertise your own store, that's stooping low, you should gain customers by the quality of your product. Please next time you would like to advertise please respect others that put their heart and soul into their products and spend their time productively in advertising their products in a respectful manner."

1) The companies only tie to me, is that I've used them once to buy concentrates. So it's not my company, nor do I know any of it's affiliates at all.
2) They don't contain those chemicals, nor alcohol, if you've ever vaped local juice you've probably vaped them - I'm fairly confident. I'll attach the price-list which states so. I have the lab tests too if need be.
3) Percentages really aren't something I believe can be stated matter-of-factly. Taste varies.
4) I didn't badmouth anyone, I gave my opinion: "Local concentrates retail for too much".
5) I don't run a business so I don't need any customers.
6) I totally respect and support our local companies. I am yet to spend a cent on vape products internationally.
7) When a company charges above market value I tend to look elsewhere. F me right?

Again, sorry for the confusion.

 

[RichJB]

@RichJB thank you, may i ask your preferable flavour profile (s), i know with vaping this not easy to answer, but i lets say, what is your ADV right now ?

Generally I favour bakeries and desserts. I like dense vapes, I find fruits, candies, beverages to be too thin. Anything with a heavy bakery base or creams/custards in the dessert range is good for me. My ADVs are Wayne's Funfetti, Chrisdvr1's Sugar Cookies and Cream, and tranceinate's Simply Cannoli. There are a number of others which I like but can't say I'll make them again and again.

 

[Oceanic Vapes]

First off, I have nothing to do with them. I don't even know the name of the lady whom I emailed. I don't really understand where you drew your conclusion from. I didn't badmouth anyone. All I said was that I believe the prices of local flavours to be grossly inflated. Which is fact, not only for concentrates but juices in general. Do you believe a 30ml bottle costs R150 to make? It' costs around R10-R30 depending on ingredients and quality of the manufacturing process as well as scale of production. The reason there is such a high mark-up on juice is because it requires crazy amounts of time and research to perfect a recipe and label. It's a royal pain in the A and extremely time consuming to mass produce juice on your own (Which many locals still do). Once you've gone through all that effort you rightly feel like your juice is worth a bit more than a few bucks. Then there's the cost of advertising and launching too. Lastly because rent and overheads need to be covered by stores. So, although the end price is heavily inflated it's still perfectly justified.

Then there's concentrates...

The cost of LOCAL flavours at non-discounted/ bulk rates is usually R60-R250 per kilo with more exotic flavours asking up to R310p/k.
Here's your proof.

Now I'm not going to break down the cost of running a solely online based concentrates store, but as you can imagine, aside from effort, the costs are relatively low in comparison to the cost of production of end result e-juice. So why are local guys paying so much towards rebottled and rebranded concentrates

I used to mix my own juice and have used almost every local store for concentrates over the past 2 years. The prices vary drastically. I went a step further and contacted every local flavour maker that I could to find the best source for DIY flavours. My search lead me to the affor mentioned site.
I found out with further investigation that this particular site supplies a large portion of the local retail industries flavours - Ever wonder how every 'local' concentrate retailer has a very similar flavour list? Any ways, My point was, without pointing a finger at any individual, that my personal opinion is that purchasing flavours for R60-R400 per kilo and flogging them off at the current market price is, well, k*k. It's business and I fully understand that but it's k*k. And that is why I posted the link. So that people who are interested in DIY and commited enough to the hobby to go and dig up this thread have access to the best quality local juice that I have been able to find.

Just to clear things up:

"Is your flavours

• Diacetyl Free
• Acetyl Propionyl Free
• Acetoin Free

And at what % do you use for creating liquid, do you have certification for above. You don't need to bad mouth local suppliers just to advertise your own store, that's stooping low, you should gain customers by the quality of your product. Please next time you would like to advertise please respect others that put their heart and soul into their products and spend their time productively in advertising their products in a respectful manner."

1) The companies only tie to me, is that I've used them once to buy concentrates. So it's not my company, nor do I know any of it's affiliates at all.
2) They don't contain those chemicals, nor alcohol, if you've ever vaped local juice you've probably vaped them - I'm fairly confident. I'll attach the price-list which states so. I have the lab tests too if need be.
3) Percentages really aren't something I believe can be stated matter-of-factly. Taste varies.
4) I didn't badmouth anyone, I gave my opinion: "Local concentrates retail for too much".
5) I don't run a business so I don't need any customers.
6) I totally respect and support our local companies. I am yet to spend a cent on vape products internationally.
7) When a company charges above market value I tend to look elsewhere. F me right?

Again, sorry for the confusion.

Each to their own bud, but when you post an advertisement, for you or a store, you don't have to compare with others in general, the should be able to market themselves without saying " local concentrates are overpriced." If your product is awesome it will sell, and yes we usually spend more money for better quality. If you want to complain about pricing, start making!

 

[Rude Rudi]

That’s fabulous bud but I am yet to meet any DIY’er who is going to buy a kilogram of concentrates.

At 7.5% total flavoring, a kg of concentrate is going to give you just over 13 liters or about 445 x 30 ml bottles. At 2 bottles a week, this, one flavour juice will last you for 222 days - the same juice, day in and day out...one flavour. I’d rather vape water...

Great idea but dismally flawed... this is not the correct forum to preach about the cost and morality of the costs of DIY...

I smell a rat...







Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Oceanic Vapes]

Last but not least, R160 per bottle, I'll pay all day, you don't know how much work goes into creating a awesome recipe. One of mine took over a year to get right, and I've heard of guys taking over 2 years to get it right. We as diyers support and stand by each other and help each other, we are all in the same game, and anyone that what's quality will pay for it. I make mostly my own vape but I still support our local brands. Thanks to the local guys for such awesome juice and hard work put in to make amazing flavours.

 

[Rude Rudi]

So let me get this right:

I had a chat to the owner, who informed me that they are one of SAs largest ejuice concentrate suppliers. (Leaving out specific names intentionally)

Then:

First off, I have nothing to do with them. I don't even know the name of the lady whom I emailed.

So, first chat to them but withholding the name, then you emailed them but you don’t know her name... and then:

I've used them once to buy concentrates.

Common bud, go and try your luck elsewhere....

 

[Spyro]

All I did was post an alternative source for DIY flavours. At R60 a kilo for certain juices when you can pay the same for 30mls then why opt for the latter? They are coming from EXACTLY the same source. You're saving money. Getting more... Dump it when you're done! Your entire Nath explaining is void by the fact that a kilo costs the same as 30-50mls retail. Your argument about having to vape all of it is silly. I can't be bothered to explain economies of scale, you'll save a bunch long term if you ever decided to reorder a flavour even once. They offer 50ml samples at R50 each too. The only realy reason for friction is because I've potentially leaked a source cheaper than your own personal store or potentially your source. Well, that was sort of the point. Offer cheaper alternatives. This is a community after all? Are we not meant to look out for each other rather than withhold information and create monopolistic competion in the vape industry?

@Oceanic Vapes I absolutely do know. I mentioned that in the first paragraph in excrutiating detail:

"The reason there is such a high mark-up on juice is because it requires crazy amounts of time and research to perfect a recipe and label. It's a royal pain in the A and extremely time consuming to mass produce juice on your own (Which many locals still do). Once you've gone through all that effort you rightly feel like your juice is worth a bit more than a few bucks. Then there's the cost of advertising and launching too. Lastly because rent and overheads need to be covered by stores. So, although the end price is heavily inflated it's still perfectly justified."

Again I'm not advertising. I posted a link to cheaper vape juice. That I have no connections with.

@Rude Rudi Maybe you should wash your upper lip then.

"
I had a chat to the owner, who informed me that they are one of SAs largest ejuice concentrate suppliers. (Leaving out specific names intentionally)
..."
Yes I forgot her name, It's called email and time. I could go back through emails to check her name, to be fair though the person I spoke to on the other end may have been an employee. When I said leaving out names intentionally I was SPECIFICALLY talking about LOCAL concentrate suppliers who use Creative flavours as their own brand. That's all.


"
So, first chat to them but withholding the name, then you emailed them but you don’t know her name... and then:"

What does emailing a company to ask a question and buying juices from them have to do with that? I didn't withhold their names. I withheld the names of the in my opinion overpriced juice companies.

"
I've used them once to buy concentrates.
"

Common bud, go and try your luck elsewhere....

You're really bonkers mate. Do you reckon aliens took down the twin towers?

 

[Oceanic Vapes]

Go ahead and advertise, that's awesome, but speaking about our local guys, that's not on. You can advertise properly without attacking the locals pricing, that's all I'm saying bud.

 

[Spyro]

I'm not advertising and based on evidence provided their pricing is bad...This is a total waste of time.

 

[Slick]

Im sorry @Spyro please help me understand,im abit slow,are you saying you know where to get concentrates cheaper? Is this place local or international? Are you trying to help us diy folk out?

 

[Spyro]

Im sorry @Spyro please help me understand,im abit slow,are you saying you know where to get concentrates cheaper? Is this place local or international? Are you trying to help us diy folk out?

Yes, Slick. I was just trying to help out some people with the cheapest available DIY flavours that I managed to find during the 2 years I mixed. Having tried the vast majority of SA flavour retailers and manufacturers.

Edit, as far as I know it's a local branch of an international company. You'll have to check with them though.

 

[vicTor]

Generally I favour bakeries and desserts. I like dense vapes, I find fruits, candies, beverages to be too thin. Anything with a heavy bakery base or creams/custards in the dessert range is good for me. My ADVs are Wayne's Funfetti, Chrisdvr1's Sugar Cookies and Cream, and tranceinate's Simply Cannoli. There are a number of others which I like but can't say I'll make them again and again.

@RichJB , seems our tastes differ, however, this simply cannoli i keep hearing about, i must try.

thanks for the replies and lets talk soon

 

[Slick]

Yes, Slick. I was just trying to help out some people with the cheapest available DIY flavours that I managed to find during the 2 years I mixed. Having tried the vast majority of SA flavour retailers and manufacturers.

But do you have to buy from overseas and go through customs and stuff and also buy per kilogram to get a good price? Or is their a local supplier who will do all that and we can just buy from them? That will make most sense doesnt it?

 

[Spyro]

But do you have to buy from overseas and go through customs and stuff and also buy per kilogram to get a good price? Or is their a local supplier who will do all that and we can just buy from them? That will make most sense doesnt it?

They told me it was "made to order" I think it's just more like "let us wait till we have a big enough order to place a shipment"

There was no customs or anything. Just a customer details form and I EFT'd them. I think the order took just under two weeks. As far as the country of origin of the flavours I haven't got a clue. The business is definitely run locally though. I also made them send me a certified 15 pager on the flavour that I bought.

Yes there are suppliers who do that for you.
Yes, you could buy from them but do it twice and you may as well have picked up the kilo. Your condescending sarcasm isn't appreciated.

 

[Slick]

They told me it was "made to order" I think it's just more like "let us wait till we have a big enough order to place a shipment"

There was no customs or anything. Just a customer details form and I EFT'd them. I think the order took just under two weeks.

Ok I understand that part,now who are you bashing,juice makers that sell ready made juice at R160 or concentrate suppliers that sell 10ml for R20-R50?

 

[Spyro]

Here I am talking about concentrate suppliers who rebottle and sell but I'm not bashing them. It's a business. I totally get it. But The mark up is very high. I don't see how it can be justified.

E-juice bottles at R160 ready made. I think that's fair. Rebottled concentrates at 20x their true value? Not so much.

1KG = R70
1KG= +-100 x10ml units
+-100 x R15 (current going rate for 10ml local) = R1500
+ R3 per bottle and label cost
R1200 gross profit on R70 investment.

That is a mark-up of biblical proportions. Some Jesus bread breaking magic... Or you know, business.

 

[Slick]

Here I am talking about concentrate suppliers who rebottle and sell but I'm not bashing them. It's a business. I totally get it. But The mark up is very high. I don't see how it can be justified.

E-juice bottles at R160 ready made. I think that's fair. Rebottled concentrates at 50x their true value? Not so much.

1KG = R70
1KG= +-100 x10ml units
+-100 x R15 (current going rate for 10ml local) = R1500
+ R3 per bottle and label cost
R1200 gross profit on R70 investment.

That is a mark-up of biblical proportions. Some Jesus bread breaking magic... Or you know, business.

Thank you for explaining,told you I was slow

 

[RichJB]

I was just trying to help out some people with the cheapest available DIY flavours that I managed to find during the 2 years I mixed.

For me, it's not about the cheapest available flavours. There are at least four local lines of flavours where you pay R1-R2 per ml. I don't use any of them. Not because the flavours are bad (I wouldn't know as I haven't tried them) but because there are no recipes for them.

For me, buying XYZ Strawberry at R10-20 per 10ml, or TFA Strawberry Ripe for R24 per 10ml, is a no-brainer. There are a million recipes and exhaustive flavour notes for Ripe. There are almost no recipes or flavour notes for the others.

I feel for the local companies. I'm sure they have excellent flavours, I have tested local flavours I really enjoyed. But DIYers follow mixing celebrities regardless of cost. Flavorah has become all the rage now, despite being the second most expensive flavour line behind Medicine Flower. The reason it's happened is not just because Flv flavours are good. It's because Flv sent complimentary complete Flv flavour packs to Wayne, skiddlz, Fear, Kopel, Ckemist, Concrete, Jenn, ID10-T and a bunch of other top mixers. So there are outstanding flavour notes and recipes available for them. Likewise, FA didn't achieve market prominence because their flavours are good (although they generally are very good). They got so big because of HIC's Notes.

It would be great if SA had a ConcreteRiver or Wayne or Jenn Jarvis or HIC who could shill local flavours, and top mixers who used them. But we don't have one that I know of. Until we do, the US/international flavours will always have a competitive edge. Local flavours being cheap isn't going to make up the difference.

 

[Slick]

For me, it's not about the cheapest available flavours. There are at least four local lines of flavours where you pay R1-R2 per ml. I don't use any of them. Not because the flavours are bad (I wouldn't know as I haven't tried them) but because there are no recipes for them.

For me, buying XYZ Strawberry at R10-20 per 10ml, or TFA Strawberry Ripe for R24 per 10ml, is a no-brainer. There are a million recipes and exhaustive flavour notes for Ripe. There are almost no recipes or flavour notes for the others.

I feel for the local companies. I'm sure they have excellent flavours, I have tested local flavours I really enjoyed. But DIYers follow mixing celebrities regardless of cost. Flavorah has become all the rage now, despite being the second most expensive flavour line behind Medicine Flower. The reason it's happened is not just because Flv flavours are good. It's because Flv sent complimentary complete Flv flavour packs to Wayne, skiddlz, Fear, Kopel, Ckemist, Concrete, Jenn, ID10-T and a bunch of other top mixers. So there are outstanding flavour notes and recipes available for them. Likewise, FA didn't achieve market prominence because their flavours are good (although they generally are very good). They got so big because of HIC's Notes.

It would be great if SA had a ConcreteRiver or Wayne or Jenn Jarvis or HIC who could shill local flavours, and top mixers who used them. But we don't have one that I know of. Until we do, the US/international flavours will always have a competitive edge. Local flavours being cheap isn't going to make up the difference.

With that said @Spyro I dont care much about the markup,im happy to pay the current prices and try online recipes like @RichJB explained because it costs me about R30-R40 per 30ml,im sure you know that already

 

[Spyro]

With that said @Spyro I dont care much about the markup,im happy to pay the current prices and try online recipes like @RichJB explained because it costs me about R30-R40 per 30ml,im sure you know that already

For sure @Slick. Link is just there if anyone wants it. There are lots of DIYers though who create their own stuff and loads of vapers who go through up to 500ml Juice Pm.

 

[Slick]

@Spyro my advice to you,as we can see you joined the forum officially last month,next time just post the link and tell us what the link is about,when you start talking trash about vendors/suppliers/wholesalers etc it just makes you look bad,but luckily the people on this forum are very understanding and forgiving and are willing to explain so its all done now,enjoy the rest of your evening!

 

[Spyro]

Thanks Slick, appreciate the concern but in my original message I did just that but added my opinion on concentrate prices. Not once did I mention a single thing about any specific company nor did I bad mouth anyone. I merely stated that the local concentrate retail industry has a high mark-up and that I don't believe it to be fair.

I don't believe any of what I have said to be unfair, biased, or anything other than factual. The fact that people are upset that I think the prices of local products are too high boggles me. It's my opinion backed with information. The very core of what founded forums in the first place. Take it or leave it, you know?

I don't feel like I needed to be pinned as a "Rat" and "advertiser".

Thanks

 

[Clouds4Days]

Thanks Slick, appreciate the concern but in my original message I did just that but added my opinion on concentrate prices. Not once did I mention a single thing about any specific company nor did I bad mouth anyone. I merely stated that the local concentrate retail industry has a high mark-up and that I don't believe it to be fair.

I don't believe any of what I have said to be unfair, biased, or anything other than factual. The fact that people are upset that I think the prices of local products are too high boggles me. It's my opinion backed with information. The very core of what founded forums in the first place. Take it or leave it, you know?

I don't feel like I needed to be pinned as a "Rat" and "advertiser".

Thanks

Hey brother , dont sweat it. Vapers are like sport supporters. If you not on our team then you the enemy

I think @RichJB explained the dilemma of using local flavours best.
But thank you for posting your findings @Spyro , and you right in your quote above "use it, dont use it"

Have a power week everyone.