The rise (or fall?) of unflavoured juice

[RichJB]

Hey all

I've just been reading through the 2018 National Youth Tobacco Survey which was done by the CDC in the US. Natch, it rambles on about the "epidemic of teen vaping" and also addresses the importance of flavours in juice. This excerpt in particular caught my eye:

The 2018 NYTS also found that among high school e-cigarette users, there was a significant increase in current flavored e-cigarette use within the past year, from 60.9 percent to 67.8 percent.

It's not the 67.8% figure that interests me but rather the corollary that 32.2% of US high school vapers are vaping an unflavoured juice, i.e. base and nic. Initially I thought this was ridiculous. I do know a couple of members here on the forum do vape unflavoured base. But the idea that fully one-third of US kids vape nic & base just sounds flat wrong.

So I did some google-fu and came up with this article, which proposes that vaping flavourless juice is the "hot new trend" among vapers. Gee, I dunno, I must have missed that. And the NYTS seems to suggest the opposite: that flavoured juice, not flavourless, is the hot new trend. Among kids anyway.

Something just isn't right here. I'm being asked to believe that fully a third of US kids vape only nic & base, no flavour. And it used to be even higher. Is the US just crazy? Are Saffies doing it too and I'm just not seeing all these unflavoured juices in stores, which are apparently so popular? What is going on here?

 

[Puff the Magic Dragon]

@RichJB . I'm really surprised that you didn't know that most of us vape unflavoured juice.....

But seriously, I'm just as confused as you are. l also remember one or two members saying that they vape unflavoured juice. That is but a handful out of over 10 000.

Quite honestly I would also be worried if almost a third of the youth vaped unflavoured juice. That would mean that they are only vaping for the nic, and probably at high doses.

 

[RichJB]

As enthusiasts/hobbyists, we can get the wrong impression of the broader vaping demographic. I was surprised to learn that there is still a slight majority of vapers around the world who are dual-users and smoke as well. I hardly know any vapers who smoke so I would have put dual-users at about 10% of the vaping population. But the stats don't lie, country after country reports large numbers of dual-users.

So I guess it is possible that huge numbers of US (and maybe even SA) kids are vaping base. But it does seem odd to me. I can't believe either the study or the vaping article which says that vaping base has become a new trend. It might have but it's not in evidence from what I see of vapers here in SA. Are there any juice retailers in SA who sell unflavoured juices?

 

[M.Adhir]

i've actually been considering switching to this. buying a pg/vg premix with nic.
primarily to cut down on vaping (way too many nice flavours out there).
all with the end goal of tapering down nic dependency, and ultimately (hopefully) breaking the habit totally.

 

[Silver]

I hear you @RichJB
Hard to believe so many people are vaping unflavoured in that research

I did a review on unflavoured nic base (clean cut) from VM a while ago
https://www.ecigssa.co.za/vapour-mountain-juice-reviews.t473/page-15#post-206622
Lol

Have vaped unflavoured only a handful of times in the past few years, mainly to "clean" a coil/wick when not in the mood to change. But its quite boring for me.

The thing is if there werent any tasty flavoured juices (in my case fruity menthols and tobaccoes) there is a fair chance I wouldnt have stuck with vaping and be back on the cigs.

This is a difficult one. I can understand that flavours make vaping very appealing - even to the youth. And it may also entice some non smokers.

However, i think flavours make vaping the powerful tool it is to help smokers quit the stinkies and move onto vaping. Without the flavours i dont think vaping would have been as successful. But thats just my opinion.

 

[Hooked]

As enthusiasts/hobbyists, we can get the wrong impression of the broader vaping demographic. I was surprised to learn that there is still a slight majority of vapers around the world who are dual-users and smoke as well. I hardly know any vapers who smoke so I would have put dual-users at about 10% of the vaping population. But the stats don't lie, country after country reports large numbers of dual-users.

So I guess it is possible that huge numbers of US (and maybe even SA) kids are vaping base. But it does seem odd to me. I can't believe either the study or the vaping article which says that vaping base has become a new trend. It might have but it's not in evidence from what I see of vapers here in SA. Are there any juice retailers in SA who sell unflavoured juices?

An acquaintance of mine smokes during the day, then in the evening, after her kid has gone to sleep, she relaxes with a vape. So for her vaping is akin to relaxing with a drink in the evening.

 

[Hooked]

i've actually been considering switching to this. buying a pg/vg premix with nic.
primarily to cut down on vaping (way too many nice flavours out there).
all with the end goal of tapering down nic dependency, and ultimately (hopefully) breaking the habit totally.

So you're going to cut out the flavour, in order to eventually cut out the nic? Why not keep and enjoy the flavour and taper down the nic? No point in punishing yourself

 

[M.Adhir]

So you're going to cut out the flavour, in order to eventually cut out the nic? Why not keep and enjoy the flavour and taper down the nic? No point in punishing yourself

Flavour is probably the reason I vape 40 to 50ml a day.. could probably drop that in half of it wasn't that appealing and was just there to fulfil the nic craving

 

[Hooked]

I hear you @RichJB
Hard to believe so many people are vaping unflavoured in that research

I did a review on unflavoured nic base (clean cut) from VM a while ago
https://www.ecigssa.co.za/vapour-mountain-juice-reviews.t473/page-15#post-206622
Lol

Have vaped unflavoured only a handful of times in the past few years, mainly to "clean" a coil/wick when not in the mood to change. But its quite boring for me.

The thing is if there werent any tasty flavoured juices (in my case fruity menthols and tobaccoes) there is a fair chance I wouldnt have stuck with vaping and be back on the cigs.

This is a difficult one. I can understand that flavours make vaping very appealing - even to the youth. And it may also entice some non smokers.

However, i think flavours make vaping the powerful tool it is to help smokers quit the stinkies and move onto vaping. Without the flavours i dont think vaping would have been as successful. But thats just my opinion.

Have vaped unflavoured only a handful of times in the past few years, mainly to "clean" a coil/wick when not in the mood to change.

Oh what a good tip, @Silver!!

 

[Jag2018]

This post makes me think of all the people that I know that vape nic free liquids.
They do it purely for the taste of the flavour and to make massive clouds. They have never touched a cigarette before and never will. To them, vaping has nothing to do with cigarettes.

Some food for thought, when we vapers are always looking at the world through a smokers frame of reference.

P.S. The U.S needs to stop being a benchmark for the rest the of the world. Just my 5bob worth.

 

[Hooked]

This post makes me think of all the people that I know that vape nic free liquids.
They do it purely for the taste of the flavour and to make massive clouds. They have never touched a cigarette before and never will. To them, vaping has nothing to do with cigarettes.

Some food for thought, when we vapers are always looking at the world through a smokers frame of reference.

P.S. The U.S needs to stop being a benchmark for the rest the of the world. Just my 5bob worth.

Do you really know many people who vape zero nic? That's interesting!

 

[Alex]

Unflavoured juice is pretty darn good, just takes a bit of getting used to.

 

[M.Adhir]

Do you really know many people who vape zero nic? That's interesting!

The problem comes when certain juices one come in >0mg variants. I know a few people who either never smoked, or had stopped smoking for years. Started vaping 0mg. Then due to non availability of juices they wanted in 0, they switched to 3mg.
And a few of them are now full time 3mg vapers, who have nic cravings and get crabby when they don't vape.

 

[Jag2018]

Do you really know many people who vape zero nic? That's interesting!

Oh yes I do.
I have a baby sister that is 17 years younger that I am. (Laat lametjie), and her boyfriend, 22, UKzn student, and all their friends, that's about 15 or 20 kids around the same age, all vape nic free.

In fact, I mix nic free liquids for them.
Uni students, broke, free juice from friends big brother. Hahahaha, I assume that's how their conversations go.

 

[Jag2018]

When I quit smoking, I was vaping 18mg.
Every three months I mix up a new batch of my daily vape. (Twisp Polar Mint and FA Mint Candy)
But every three months I lower the nic.

I am down to 8mg MTL vaping and by June next year I should be on zero.
But truth be told, I do not think I will stop vaping. I will still be a daily nic free vaper.

 

[RichJB]

I can well believe people vaping 0mg juice. Simply look at the range of juices on offer from vendors and you will see that many are offered in 0mg versions. They wouldn't be doing that if there wasn't a market for it. But I've yet to browse the juice section of local vendors and see plain base & nic juices. There may be one or two but that's it.

I vape base 70/30 mix sometimes to clear my wicks when testing, as @Silver notes. But then it doesn't have nic in it. It's not bad to vape and if your only requirement from vaping is to get nic and chuck clouds or do the whole social/mechanical routine thing of 'smoking', I guess you wouldn't really need flavour. Still, it's a bit bland. I can't see millions of kids tuning into it, which is the implication of the NYTS report.

 

[Hooked]

Oh yes I do.
I have a baby sister that is 17 years younger that I am. (Laat lametjie), and her boyfriend, 22, UKzn student, and all their friends, that's about 15 or 20 kids around the same age, all vape nic free.

In fact, I mix nic free liquids for them.
Uni students, broke, free juice from friends big brother. Hahahaha, I assume that's how their conversations go.

Wow I think it's great that they're not using nic!

 

[Puff the Magic Dragon]

I'm probably past my sell by date but I truly cannot see why one would start vaping if you are not trying to give up smoking.

We are fairly sure that vaping is not too bad for us, but we are still far from being able to say that it is safe. Why put yourself at risk when you are not trying an alternative solution to nic addiction ?

In all fairness I must admit that I probably started smoking in the late seventies because the cool kids were doing it. We were aware that it was bad for you but it was almost 100% socially acceptable to smoke. Nobody smoked outside, and there wasn't a designated smoking area in the entire country (aeroplanes were an exception... we all smoked at the back).

In the early to mid eighties we all smoked in our offices at work. The polite ones amongst us would ask visitors if they minded if we smoked. I don't recall anyone ever saying that they minded.

How times have changed.

 

[Rooigevaar]

It may be that the study did not count Tobacco or Menthol as "Flavored"?

I am not sure if I would have been able to quit using just unflavored base. The flavor is part of the experience and what makes vaping different to smoking, well for me personally anyways.

 

[Raindance]

Could just be they can not afford flavored juices and vape what they can get off the local convenience store shelves.

In terms of dual use, many of us did when starting the vape journey and with an ever increasing number of converts in the beginning stages of the change over the stats would be scewed in that direction.

Regards

 

[RichJB]

It may be that the study did not count Tobacco or Menthol as "Flavored"?

Thanks, that would make sense. I suspect that is what they mean.

 

[Jean claude Vaaldamme]

Flavour is probably the reason I vape 40 to 50ml a day.. could probably drop that in half of it wasn't that appealing and was just there to fulfil the nic craving

Agree. I think these amazing flavours make you vape so much that you actually getting in more nic than when you were smoking, even at 3 or 6 mg nic. Thats why I think its just a downward spiral and you will never stop the nic or revert back to smoking. I think its essensial to have a plan on decreasing nic and then stop vaping all together.
Thats now from a health prospective, from an enjoyment prospective you may do as you please

Does it really count that ypu say you stopped smoking, but you still vape nic everyday?

 

[RainstormZA]

Agree. I think these amazing flavours make you vape so much that you actually getting in more nic than when you were smoking, even at 3 or 6 mg nic. Thats why I think its just a downward spiral and you will never stop the nic or revert back to smoking. I think its essensial to have a plan on decreasing nic and then stop vaping all together.
Thats now from a health prospective, from an enjoyment prospective you may do as you please

Does it really count that ypu say you stopped smoking, but you still vape nic everyday?

Good question on the nic front but it still does not count as smoking as you're not longer using cigarettes.

And it's perspective, not prospective. Just saying.

Same with the movie sets using fog makers. Are they making smoke or vapour?

 

[RainstormZA]

Could just be they can not afford flavored juices and vape what they can get off the local convenience store shelves.

You can't buy nic off the local stores.

Agreed about the costs on flavours though. VG is easy to obtain - clicks and dischem stocks it for medicinal use but can be used for vaping. I know as I did it when I forgot to pack a bottle of juice when I went to write an exam and no local vapestores within walking distance.

 

[Jean claude Vaaldamme]

Good question on the nic front but it still does not count as smoking as you're not longer using cigarettes.

And it's perspective, not prospective. Just saying.

Same with the movie sets using fog makers. Are they making smoke or vapour?

Maybe, but. Last weekend my father visited.. So I tell him I stopped smoking two weeks now, he looks impressed/happy. So after a few hours, a few refresments etc, he has this puzzled look on his face. Asked why I say I stopped smoking, as Im sucking on something and blowing smoke the whole day, even more than when I was smoking.
So is that stop smoking?