RTA running at 120W!

[SQL -Jazz Guitar-Vapa]

I've pushed my old Billow v2 to 110W on a basic 2.5mm Kanthal build, fantastic vape with no dry hits but quite warm and juice mileage goes through the roof. My comfort zone is around 40W for daily vaping.

40W is fine for me too. Still hits the juice harder than my subtank

 

[SQL -Jazz Guitar-Vapa]

The max I did with my crius was 74.3W that was by accident for few min or so.I use mine at 60-65w 2.5mm 24g ss 0.25ohm no dry hits and juice channels are wide open.

I'm currently running dual 26G and I won't go over 60W. 40W seems to be the sweet spot

 

[SQL -Jazz Guitar-Vapa]

I use dual 5.5 wrap claptons (26/32), with about a 2.5mm ID, and at 90W it's a beautiful vape!

Is this in the Griffin?

 

[Stosta]

Is this in the Griffin?

My bad! In the Crius!

 

[SQL -Jazz Guitar-Vapa]

My bad! In the Crius!

Thanks
Need to get some Clapton wire. Do you think a 3mm ID will fit?

 

[Ezekiel]

Hi All
I saw a post on another forum somewhere where this guy says he's comfortably running his RTA at 120W with no dry hits at all, I think i remember him saying it's an Aromamizer, I can't seem to find the post now but.......

1. Is this really even possible or was this guy just blowing smoke.....
2. Why would anyone want to? I find my Crius excels at around 40W

Hi @SQL -Jazz Guitar-Vapa

1. Vaping at 120+ W is most definitely possible. It is quite fun, but it isn't necessarily an all-day-vape for everyone - for most of us, a run-of-the-mill atty with a moderate build running at moderate wattages (30-60 W) is the most enjoyably vape. It is similar to the differences between cigars, pipes and cigarettes - although many cigarette smokers enjoy the occasional cigar, for most of them it is not enjoyable to smoke a cigar each day. That said, dedicated cigar-only smokers exist out there.

2. Higher wattages, if done right, gives you a much denser cloud and mouth-feel, possibly more flavour (again, if done right), shorter but more effective puffs, and a much higher nicotine delivery. Alternatively, if you have coils with a very slow ramp-up (such as very crazy and multi-coil Claptons), then high wattage is practically required just to get the coils hot in a reasonable time.

Btw, for clarification, I see in your posts you mention wicking alot. Wicking, unfortunately, will only get you so far - it might determine how quickly (eg, how many puffs, or length of puffs, or time between puffs) you can vape, but it generally plays a less significant role during a puff. To arrive to a build which can achieve higher wattages, you need a combination of the following things:

1. More airflow
2. More coil external surface area (through twisting, Clapton, etc.)
3. More coil internal surface area (more number of wraps, larger inner diameter)
4. Lower guage wires (wires with higher resistance tends to reach a higher max temperature, which can scorch your coils more easily)
5. Larger number of coils in parallel

The last point needs some clarification. Coils in parallel (such as the dual coils in your Crius) divides the current flowing through each coil. To push the same amount of current through each of two coils in a dual build than through a single coil in a mono build, you would need more power. In this way, a single coil at 20 W will outproduce a dual coil at 20 W, given similar coil resistances. However, the dual coil at 40 W (giving 20 W each coil) will be significantly more powerful than the single coil at 20 W. Imagine now a quad coil (all in parallel) at 80 W, and you get the idea.

Now, interestingly, you can achieve more coils in parallel without trying to fit an octa-coil into your Crius, by either twisting (http://www.vapecore.com/2014/05/5-minute-guide-twisting-kanthal-atomizer-coils/) your wires or building each coil in parallel (http://www.vapecore.com/2014/05/art-parallel-coil-guide-boosting-vaping-output/). While not necessarily as effective as actual dual or quad coils, since two wires in parallel in a single coil will share the heat of each coil, as well as allow a (marginally small) conduit across the coils, it is still a very effective way to increase the vaping output of your coils while keeping the coil size (diameter, number of wraps) more or less the same.

I would suggest you try building your normal coil - whatever it was - as a parallel coil, and see how much you can pump up the wattage. You might have to make it slightly smaller than usual, since you have no way of increasing your airflow, and a parallel coil will be double the length than a normal coil, which might result in the vape being way too hot (but not necessarily burning your cotton)

Btw, an interesting property to use as a metric is the Heat Flux in www.steam-engine.org/coil.asp:



This property gives the effective amount of power through each square millimeter of your coil. The lower this number, the lower will the general coil temperature be. You can then adjust the power (10 Watt in the picture above) to calculate the heat flux for that specific power. Try to keep this value between 250 and 300 mW/mm2 and you'll have something which shoudln't give you a dry hit (at least not during a single puff). You can now play around with this value - try different coil builds in Steam Engine, and see how that affects the heat flux. I usually calculate and record the heat flux per watt (in other words, heat flux at 1 watt) and try to get that as low as possible if I'm building a high-power build.

Last thing, make sure your mod can do higher wattages for a given resistance. Although many mods advertise as 75 W, or 160 W, or 200 W, there is a resistance range where this actually holds. In the end, a mod has an upper voltage cap - which is generally between 3.7 and 4.2 Volt per battery. If the resistance is too high, then there is an upper wattage which the mod can provide. Some mods inform you that the resistance and wattage combination is too high, whereas others pretend that it is at a higher wattage when, in actual fact, it is not. The first time I pushed for wattage I couldn't believe that I was actually doing 180 W... until I calculated everything and realized I had not gone over 96 W. It is worthwile calculating everything first before attempting a build which will go over 100 W, just to make sure your mod can handle it. And of course, check your batteries as well - calculate how much Amp will be needed, and determine whether your batteries will be able to handle that safely. Again, not all mods will cut you off or warn you, so rather be safe than sorry!

Anyway, hope it helps! Every vaper will try a high wattage build at sometime, and most of them will probably go back to 'normal' wattages again afterwards, as it generally is more pleasing as an ADV. But building for wattage is definitely very fun!

 

[Greyz]

Running on my smok tfv4 mini dual build at 135 comfortable but juice goes out in like 5 pulls

Now just imagine what your TFv4 will do to your juice when you running dual 3.5mm 10 wrap SS coils 0.3ohms at 100W..... talk about thirsty and I could still push that build higher but my juice balance said NO!

 

[Stosta]

Thanks
Need to get some Clapton wire. Do you think a 3mm ID will fit?

It certainly does, but it is a tight fit, and the ramp up time was a bit too high for my liking, and the batts didn't last long at all!

Also, don't do a 3mm ID with regular kanthal, I got a lot of dry hits on the Crius with this, and no matter what I did with the wicking it came out dry.

 

[CloudmanJHB]

Hi @SQL -Jazz Guitar-Vapa

1. Vaping at 120+ W is most definitely possible. It is quite fun, but it isn't necessarily an all-day-vape for everyone - for most of us, a run-of-the-mill atty with a moderate build running at moderate wattages (30-60 W) is the most enjoyably vape. It is similar to the differences between cigars, pipes and cigarettes - although many cigarette smokers enjoy the occasional cigar, for most of them it is not enjoyable to smoke a cigar each day. That said, dedicated cigar-only smokers exist out there.

2. Higher wattages, if done right, gives you a much denser cloud and mouth-feel, possibly more flavour (again, if done right), shorter but more effective puffs, and a much higher nicotine delivery. Alternatively, if you have coils with a very slow ramp-up (such as very crazy and multi-coil Claptons), then high wattage is practically required just to get the coils hot in a reasonable time.

Btw, for clarification, I see in your posts you mention wicking alot. Wicking, unfortunately, will only get you so far - it might determine how quickly (eg, how many puffs, or length of puffs, or time between puffs) you can vape, but it generally plays a less significant role during a puff. To arrive to a build which can achieve higher wattages, you need a combination of the following things:

1. More airflow
2. More coil external surface area (through twisting, Clapton, etc.)
3. More coil internal surface area (more number of wraps, larger inner diameter)
4. Lower guage wires (wires with higher resistance tends to reach a higher max temperature, which can scorch your coils more easily)
5. Larger number of coils in parallel

The last point needs some clarification. Coils in parallel (such as the dual coils in your Crius) divides the current flowing through each coil. To push the same amount of current through each of two coils in a dual build than through a single coil in a mono build, you would need more power. In this way, a single coil at 20 W will outproduce a dual coil at 20 W, given similar coil resistances. However, the dual coil at 40 W (giving 20 W each coil) will be significantly more powerful than the single coil at 20 W. Imagine now a quad coil (all in parallel) at 80 W, and you get the idea.

Now, interestingly, you can achieve more coils in parallel without trying to fit an octa-coil into your Crius, by either twisting (http://www.vapecore.com/2014/05/5-minute-guide-twisting-kanthal-atomizer-coils/) your wires or building each coil in parallel (http://www.vapecore.com/2014/05/art-parallel-coil-guide-boosting-vaping-output/). While not necessarily as effective as actual dual or quad coils, since two wires in parallel in a single coil will share the heat of each coil, as well as allow a (marginally small) conduit across the coils, it is still a very effective way to increase the vaping output of your coils while keeping the coil size (diameter, number of wraps) more or less the same.

I would suggest you try building your normal coil - whatever it was - as a parallel coil, and see how much you can pump up the wattage. You might have to make it slightly smaller than usual, since you have no way of increasing your airflow, and a parallel coil will be double the length than a normal coil, which might result in the vape being way too hot (but not necessarily burning your cotton)

Btw, an interesting property to use as a metric is the Heat Flux in www.steam-engine.org/coil.asp:

View attachment 55447

This property gives the effective amount of power through each square millimeter of your coil. The lower this number, the lower will the general coil temperature be. You can then adjust the power (10 Watt in the picture above) to calculate the heat flux for that specific power. Try to keep this value between 250 and 300 mW/mm2 and you'll have something which shoudln't give you a dry hit (at least not during a single puff). You can now play around with this value - try different coil builds in Steam Engine, and see how that affects the heat flux. I usually calculate and record the heat flux per watt (in other words, heat flux at 1 watt) and try to get that as low as possible if I'm building a high-power build.

Last thing, make sure your mod can do higher wattages for a given resistance. Although many mods advertise as 75 W, or 160 W, or 200 W, there is a resistance range where this actually holds. In the end, a mod has an upper voltage cap - which is generally between 3.7 and 4.2 Volt per battery. If the resistance is too high, then there is an upper wattage which the mod can provide. Some mods inform you that the resistance and wattage combination is too high, whereas others pretend that it is at a higher wattage when, in actual fact, it is not. The first time I pushed for wattage I couldn't believe that I was actually doing 180 W... until I calculated everything and realized I had not gone over 96 W. It is worthwile calculating everything first before attempting a build which will go over 100 W, just to make sure your mod can handle it. And of course, check your batteries as well - calculate how much Amp will be needed, and determine whether your batteries will be able to handle that safely. Again, not all mods will cut you off or warn you, so rather be safe than sorry!

Anyway, hope it helps! Every vaper will try a high wattage build at sometime, and most of them will probably go back to 'normal' wattages again afterwards, as it generally is more pleasing as an ADV. But building for wattage is definitely very fun!

Yet another brilliantly detailed reply, something we have become accustomed to from Ezekiel!

 

[Ezekiel]

Yet another brilliantly detailed reply, something we have become accustomed to from Ezekiel!

Thanks @CloudmanJHB !

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

[Neal]

Yet another brilliantly detailed reply, something we have become accustomed to from Ezekiel!

I nominate @Ezekiel for a "master in vaping science" medal. Every post is a winner.

 

[SQL -Jazz Guitar-Vapa]

It certainly does, but it is a tight fit, and the ramp up time was a bit too high for my liking, and the batts didn't last long at all!

Also, don't do a 3mm ID with regular kanthal, I got a lot of dry hits on the Crius with this, and no matter what I did with the wicking it came out dry.

Thanks
2.4mm ID. 26/32 Claptons is what I'll do then.

 

[SQL -Jazz Guitar-Vapa]

Hi @SQL -Jazz Guitar-Vapa

1. Vaping at 120+ W is most definitely possible. It is quite fun, but it isn't necessarily an all-day-vape for everyone - for most of us, a run-of-the-mill atty with a moderate build running at moderate wattages (30-60 W) is the most enjoyably vape. It is similar to the differences between cigars, pipes and cigarettes - although many cigarette smokers enjoy the occasional cigar, for most of them it is not enjoyable to smoke a cigar each day. That said, dedicated cigar-only smokers exist out there.

2. Higher wattages, if done right, gives you a much denser cloud and mouth-feel, possibly more flavour (again, if done right), shorter but more effective puffs, and a much higher nicotine delivery. Alternatively, if you have coils with a very slow ramp-up (such as very crazy and multi-coil Claptons), then high wattage is practically required just to get the coils hot in a reasonable time.

Btw, for clarification, I see in your posts you mention wicking alot. Wicking, unfortunately, will only get you so far - it might determine how quickly (eg, how many puffs, or length of puffs, or time between puffs) you can vape, but it generally plays a less significant role during a puff. To arrive to a build which can achieve higher wattages, you need a combination of the following things:

1. More airflow
2. More coil external surface area (through twisting, Clapton, etc.)
3. More coil internal surface area (more number of wraps, larger inner diameter)
4. Lower guage wires (wires with higher resistance tends to reach a higher max temperature, which can scorch your coils more easily)
5. Larger number of coils in parallel

The last point needs some clarification. Coils in parallel (such as the dual coils in your Crius) divides the current flowing through each coil. To push the same amount of current through each of two coils in a dual build than through a single coil in a mono build, you would need more power. In this way, a single coil at 20 W will outproduce a dual coil at 20 W, given similar coil resistances. However, the dual coil at 40 W (giving 20 W each coil) will be significantly more powerful than the single coil at 20 W. Imagine now a quad coil (all in parallel) at 80 W, and you get the idea.

Now, interestingly, you can achieve more coils in parallel without trying to fit an octa-coil into your Crius, by either twisting (http://www.vapecore.com/2014/05/5-minute-guide-twisting-kanthal-atomizer-coils/) your wires or building each coil in parallel (http://www.vapecore.com/2014/05/art-parallel-coil-guide-boosting-vaping-output/). While not necessarily as effective as actual dual or quad coils, since two wires in parallel in a single coil will share the heat of each coil, as well as allow a (marginally small) conduit across the coils, it is still a very effective way to increase the vaping output of your coils while keeping the coil size (diameter, number of wraps) more or less the same.

I would suggest you try building your normal coil - whatever it was - as a parallel coil, and see how much you can pump up the wattage. You might have to make it slightly smaller than usual, since you have no way of increasing your airflow, and a parallel coil will be double the length than a normal coil, which might result in the vape being way too hot (but not necessarily burning your cotton)

Btw, an interesting property to use as a metric is the Heat Flux in www.steam-engine.org/coil.asp:

View attachment 55447

This property gives the effective amount of power through each square millimeter of your coil. The lower this number, the lower will the general coil temperature be. You can then adjust the power (10 Watt in the picture above) to calculate the heat flux for that specific power. Try to keep this value between 250 and 300 mW/mm2 and you'll have something which shoudln't give you a dry hit (at least not during a single puff). You can now play around with this value - try different coil builds in Steam Engine, and see how that affects the heat flux. I usually calculate and record the heat flux per watt (in other words, heat flux at 1 watt) and try to get that as low as possible if I'm building a high-power build.

Last thing, make sure your mod can do higher wattages for a given resistance. Although many mods advertise as 75 W, or 160 W, or 200 W, there is a resistance range where this actually holds. In the end, a mod has an upper voltage cap - which is generally between 3.7 and 4.2 Volt per battery. If the resistance is too high, then there is an upper wattage which the mod can provide. Some mods inform you that the resistance and wattage combination is too high, whereas others pretend that it is at a higher wattage when, in actual fact, it is not. The first time I pushed for wattage I couldn't believe that I was actually doing 180 W... until I calculated everything and realized I had not gone over 96 W. It is worthwile calculating everything first before attempting a build which will go over 100 W, just to make sure your mod can handle it. And of course, check your batteries as well - calculate how much Amp will be needed, and determine whether your batteries will be able to handle that safely. Again, not all mods will cut you off or warn you, so rather be safe than sorry!

Anyway, hope it helps! Every vaper will try a high wattage build at sometime, and most of them will probably go back to 'normal' wattages again afterwards, as it generally is more pleasing as an ADV. But building for wattage is definitely very fun!

Hi @Ezekiel
Wow! Thanks for all this information. It really helps.
Basically, I'd be happy just to get one high wattage build under my belt and give it a puff or 2. After that, I'll go back to my ADV configuration.

Thanks again.

 

[Kamiel]

Thanks
Does Clapton allow for higher wattages because of its longer ramp up time?
Wait, will 10wraps even fit in a Griffin?

It takes a while to ramp up initially, yeah. But it gets going eventually -- especially on my Hcigar VT200 as I can tweak the ramp ups with Escripe.

10 wraps does fit... somewhat. Admittedly, it was a sukkel at first and I had to install them at acute angles so that they wouldn't short on the chimney but ohms have been stable and I haven't had a dry hit.

Mind you, I won't do this again as the tank clearly wasn't made for it. I'll save the high wattage builds for when my Tornado arrives from Asia.

 

[Lord Vetinari]

A dual 10-wrap 3mm clapton build on a Griffin can hit 200w easily, with no dry hits in sight and flavour for days, son.... but it's a really hot vape.

Welcome to Cape Town lol... man the builds that go into Griffins and the wattages around those parts... can get quite intense. Average wattage round 95 or so and always Claptons..

 

[Kamiel]

Welcome to Cape Town lol... man the builds that go into Griffins and the wattages around those parts... can get quite intense. Average wattage round 95 or so and always Claptons..

Too right! We're lazy, go to bed when we want and we're never on time for anything, but let it not be said that we don't overdo absolutely anything that can, even slightly, be overdone.

 

[Lord Vetinari]

Too right! We're lazy, go to bed when we want and we're never on time for anything, but let it not be said that we don't overdo absolutely anything that can, even slightly be overdone.

GREAT town I love it.

 

[Caveman]

Just cause I can . 0.3 ohm twisted, I think SS, the coils that come with the Ijoy Tornado. Got it as a bday present so haven't put anything else yet. It hits like a truck full of dildos and I don't particularly enjoy it but it doesn't go dry at all.. Normal on this has been 50-70 watt depending on the juice

Sent from my D2533 using Tapatalk

 

[adiel baker]

I run my bellus at 145w, very short drags though, like 2 seconds at most, if longer I go into the cough of death.

 

[Greyz]

Out of sheer boredom and the this thread I bumped the RX up from70W to 125W. Went up 10W each time till 120W, ended off on 125W just to see if it's possible.
The vape while it got hot after 100W was not uncomfortable at all. Even at 125W I could take a 3-4 second hit. Although man the juice just disappears at anything over 100W. Like literally just filled the TF-RDTA, opened the juice flow and then topped it off. It's almost finished after just 10min, thats +-7ml in 10mins! Back to 70W I go!