Calling all DIY'ers
- Thread starter Viper_SA
- Start date
Next time I see you I want to shake your hands sir. Thank you for this. I agree sooo much with the not wanting to waste, it really grates me, and this will help a lot with doing individual flavour testing but not wasting.
What a post @RichJB !!!! I would double-rate this if I could!
My process for single flavor testing is a bit different because for me it more important to see how the flavor develops over time than what the best percentage is to use it at (seeing as there are so many resources out there where you get fair idea of the recommended %).
My system is maybe a tad bit more tedious than what most people do but it works for me.
1.) Read up on the flavoring you intend to test
I have quite a bit of idle time during my gautrain commute so I tend to spend that time reading up on the flavoring (and get a good understanding of the recommended %).
2.) Copy and paste useful comments
I copy and paste all the useful comments i can find into a word doc (i don't even format) and queue to print whenever i connect to the network
I use (E-liquid-recipes.com, alltheflavors.com, reddit.com/diy_ejuice and forums such as esigssa.co.za)
3.) Mix up the testers
I mix up 4 x 10ml tester in the ballpark of the recommended % (I usually go a little lower, people overflavor most of the time)
Test 1 - Shake and Vape
I usually need to vape about two tanks (about 5ml) to fully grasp the flavor completely.
I make rough notes as I vape - just light bullet points (usually in front of the TV watching series)
Test 2 - 7 day steep
I repeat the process days later an make notes on how the flavor changes, adjust any % I feel should change as the flavor develops etc.
with the leftover juice I mix something else with it to judge another pairing
Test 3 - 14 day steep (I may increase this to 21 days for baccos or custard etc.)
I again repeat the process as in test 2
Last bottle
Now the reason I do 4 x 10ml bottles. it becuase nr 4 goes into pandoras box. Its just a messy box where I dump the bottles in to vape much later
I typically test these juice after like 90 days to see if the flavor maintains its potency (90 day test is critical for recipe development - lol ask any of the commercial juice manufacturers) but also to have a tester ready if I need a reminder of what the flavor tastes like or when I am developing recipes and have run out of concentrates to decide if it is worth replenishing.
Now I only introduce one new flavor test a week (sometimes more depending on how urgently i want to test the flavors) so its just nice and relaxed pace with constant learning and feedback.
I have made a rule that after 21:00 every night, I no longer vape my mixes or purchased juices, I sit, watch series and vape away at the testers and making notes etc. I mix my testers with nic so I get my fix while I am at it.
i know mine seems awfully tedious but it really isn't that intensive once you get into the groove.
I would love to hear your thoughts, I would be cool if I can streamline this a bit more?
My system is maybe a tad bit more tedious than what most people do but it works for me.
1.) Read up on the flavoring you intend to test
I have quite a bit of idle time during my gautrain commute so I tend to spend that time reading up on the flavoring (and get a good understanding of the recommended %).
2.) Copy and paste useful comments
I copy and paste all the useful comments i can find into a word doc (i don't even format) and queue to print whenever i connect to the network
I use (E-liquid-recipes.com, alltheflavors.com, reddit.com/diy_ejuice and forums such as esigssa.co.za)
3.) Mix up the testers
I mix up 4 x 10ml tester in the ballpark of the recommended % (I usually go a little lower, people overflavor most of the time)
Test 1 - Shake and Vape
I usually need to vape about two tanks (about 5ml) to fully grasp the flavor completely.
I make rough notes as I vape - just light bullet points (usually in front of the TV watching series)
- Profile
- Off Flavor
- mouth feel
- sweetnes
- harshness
- pairings
- or what I can do to fix some of the flaws I think the flavor may have
- how it compares to other similar flavors
Test 2 - 7 day steep
I repeat the process days later an make notes on how the flavor changes, adjust any % I feel should change as the flavor develops etc.
with the leftover juice I mix something else with it to judge another pairing
Test 3 - 14 day steep (I may increase this to 21 days for baccos or custard etc.)
I again repeat the process as in test 2
Last bottle
Now the reason I do 4 x 10ml bottles. it becuase nr 4 goes into pandoras box. Its just a messy box where I dump the bottles in to vape much later
I typically test these juice after like 90 days to see if the flavor maintains its potency (90 day test is critical for recipe development - lol ask any of the commercial juice manufacturers) but also to have a tester ready if I need a reminder of what the flavor tastes like or when I am developing recipes and have run out of concentrates to decide if it is worth replenishing.
Now I only introduce one new flavor test a week (sometimes more depending on how urgently i want to test the flavors) so its just nice and relaxed pace with constant learning and feedback.
I have made a rule that after 21:00 every night, I no longer vape my mixes or purchased juices, I sit, watch series and vape away at the testers and making notes etc. I mix my testers with nic so I get my fix while I am at it.
i know mine seems awfully tedious but it really isn't that intensive once you get into the groove.
I would love to hear your thoughts, I would be cool if I can streamline this a bit more?
Like your idea, but what about if we invert it? So we make a 10ml batch at say 5%. Use 2 mil (for testing) and top up with plain old PG/VG +Nic mix. Draw the next 2 mil and top up again. Would not be a linear decrease in flavor but the actual % flavor per increment can be calculated. Think the problem might be, how does one judge changes in flavor starting from a high concentration?
Really like to hear the thoughts on this...
Regards
You could invert although I think it's arithmetically easier to just keep adding concentrate. If you vape 2ml at a time and replace it with base, you are stuck with certain percentage intervals.
If you started with 10% in a 10ml base (i.e. 1g) then vape 2ml, you have 0.8g left. Top up to 10ml again and that = 8%.
Vape another 2ml, now you have 80% of 0.8g left, which is 0.64g = 6.4%
Vape another 2ml, now you have 80% of 0.64g left, which is 0.512g = 5.12%
Vape another 2m, now you have 80% of 0.512g left, which is 0.409 = 4.09%
So it starts getting a bit funky with %. When you work additively, you can ensure that you go up in increments of 1%.
If you started with 10% in a 10ml base (i.e. 1g) then vape 2ml, you have 0.8g left. Top up to 10ml again and that = 8%.
Vape another 2ml, now you have 80% of 0.8g left, which is 0.64g = 6.4%
Vape another 2ml, now you have 80% of 0.64g left, which is 0.512g = 5.12%
Vape another 2m, now you have 80% of 0.512g left, which is 0.409 = 4.09%
So it starts getting a bit funky with %. When you work additively, you can ensure that you go up in increments of 1%.
Does seem like a heck of a lot of vaping... *RECALCULATING...* LOL
I have to admit that I use Evernote to keep track of all my recipes, flavour notes, etc. etc. And as for watching videos, etc. Oh hell yes. I have a library of close to 1Gb of videos quite likely, from various mixers and flavour testers, etc. etc. etc. I update my Evernote with them quite frequently and rewatch them every now and then in case I missed something small. Very first time watching a new video is quite time consuming to be honest as I pause almost every 5 seconds to make notes (three finger typist here). Then reading up on all the sites I can find and making notes from that as well.
Once one has gone through all that you almost do not need to do single flavour profile testing anymore but I still do. It's like the difference between watching a movie and reading the book. The book, though it may take longer, is just better.
Once one has gone through all that you almost do not need to do single flavour profile testing anymore but I still do. It's like the difference between watching a movie and reading the book. The book, though it may take longer, is just better.
Looking for a recipe for me Cap Hot Cocoa...Has anyone made anything decent with it?
Help a brother out...!
Help a brother out...!
You've seen ThirdWorldOrder's Fireside Cocoa, I presume? Might be tricky to source Cap Horchata, though.
Yip, saw that but no Hochata... will play based on the basics of this recipe perhaps
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I was pleased to see yesterday that ConcreteRiver runs a system similar to mine. He also doesn't want to use multiple bottles to test one flavour so he has devised his own system of gradually increasing the strength but keeping it in one bottle.
I saw it on the latest Mixlife podcast hosted by Kopel, which has quickly become my favourite mixing podcast of all. Last week's one featured ID10-t and Ckemist, this week it was ConcreteRiver and CheebaSteeba. The show is informal but it's all mixing and done in a mature way with no extraneous chatter. I type so many notes during the show that my wrists and fingers are aching by the end. I like Wayne's shows but they're 20% mixing and 80% personalities. This show is 100% mixing. If you want solid mixing content, Kopel delivers it in spades. I just hope he can keep it up and not burn out like Beginner Blending did.
I have also fallen head over heals for that channel. It's much more focussed now. Altough it seems in the mix have also stepped up their focus.but these guys are doing it right.
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"Mint Crystal Menth"
I want to share a mix that I developed.
If you like menthol / mint and you want to make a juice with minimum expenditure for maximum output then try this one:
First, go to a pharmacy and buy menthol crystals. Then go to Woolworths and buy their peppermint essence: 30ml. It is only mint flavoring suspended in PG, no other nasty ingredients. It is not very strong, but rather delicate and pleasant on the palate.
At home, take a 100ml bottle. Fill it up to 1/3 with the menthol crystals. Top the bottle up with PG. Seal the lid, dunk the bottle in warm, not boiling hot, water and shake. All the crystals will disappear. Now you have 100ml of menthol Concentrate. Generally, you use 3 to 5 drops per 10ml of juice. You can spice up any fruity juice with a menthol note with this Concentrate.
Now for the recipe:
Woolworths peppermint essence 10%
Menthol Concentrate 2%
Smooth TFA 2%
A day or two steeping time is required. Taste and add more drops of menthol Concentrate if necessary.
I am loving this DIY juice and I am hoping it will bring others the same pleasure.
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I want to share a mix that I developed.
If you like menthol / mint and you want to make a juice with minimum expenditure for maximum output then try this one:
First, go to a pharmacy and buy menthol crystals. Then go to Woolworths and buy their peppermint essence: 30ml. It is only mint flavoring suspended in PG, no other nasty ingredients. It is not very strong, but rather delicate and pleasant on the palate.
At home, take a 100ml bottle. Fill it up to 1/3 with the menthol crystals. Top the bottle up with PG. Seal the lid, dunk the bottle in warm, not boiling hot, water and shake. All the crystals will disappear. Now you have 100ml of menthol Concentrate. Generally, you use 3 to 5 drops per 10ml of juice. You can spice up any fruity juice with a menthol note with this Concentrate.
Now for the recipe:
Woolworths peppermint essence 10%
Menthol Concentrate 2%
Smooth TFA 2%
A day or two steeping time is required. Taste and add more drops of menthol Concentrate if necessary.
I am loving this DIY juice and I am hoping it will bring others the same pleasure.
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Ooh I have to try this @Waine currently vaping on a local tobacco juice that currently has peppermint in it and I think its divine..
Good to know abt the woolies peppermint essence
So Wayne and Kopel have both this addressed this issue of the First Rule on their recent podcasts: mixers want other DIYers to test their recipes and give them feedback. But there are barriers to that happening. One of the biggest is the First Rule. As Wayne noted, recipe developers who use concentrates that most mixers don't have are asking DIYers to spend money and take a risk on buying a new flavour, in the hope that the recipe will be good. Kopel also addressed it on his show yesterday, saying that recipe developers have to be cognisant of the flavours that people have if they want feedback and widescale mixing of their recipes. Steamroom (Clayton) countered that it's up to DIYers to buy the flavours, recipe developers shouldn't limit themselves to popular flavours but rather go with what works best.
It's a tough one because if we only use the staples then DIY stagnates because it's the same concentrates, used in the same way, over and over. But it also doesn't help if recipe developers think outside the box and people keep bumping up against the First Rule.
I'm kinda in the middle on this. My policy is that I will buy flavours if I like them and want to use them in my own recipes, or if the flavour is widely used and highly rated. If a recipe comes out now with Flv Yakima Hops in it then sorry, dude, but I'm not mixing and rating your recipe or giving you feedback. If, however, twenty mixers use it, all love it and say that there is no sub for it then I will probably buy it. Before buying a flavour, I do a search on ATF. If I don't see at least six recipes for it, with at least one of those having several high ratings, then I take it out of my cart. Unless it's something like Horchata which I want to use and develop in my own recipes.
Kopel raised a really good point about ATF. I don't have a subscription so I can't officially rate recipes. However, it's not just the rating that counts, it's the feedback as well. Kopel suggested using the FB comments section below the recipe to leave comments for the mixer. I mix a LOT of ATF recipes and never thought of doing that before. But I'll definitely start leaving comments now. It must be very discouraging for a mixer to work on a recipe for four months, release it on ATF and then never receive even one bit of confirmation that anybody has even tried it. The vast majority of recipes have nothing - no rating, not a single comment. Taking a few minutes to leave a comment will be a big help imo.
It's a tough one because if we only use the staples then DIY stagnates because it's the same concentrates, used in the same way, over and over. But it also doesn't help if recipe developers think outside the box and people keep bumping up against the First Rule.
I'm kinda in the middle on this. My policy is that I will buy flavours if I like them and want to use them in my own recipes, or if the flavour is widely used and highly rated. If a recipe comes out now with Flv Yakima Hops in it then sorry, dude, but I'm not mixing and rating your recipe or giving you feedback. If, however, twenty mixers use it, all love it and say that there is no sub for it then I will probably buy it. Before buying a flavour, I do a search on ATF. If I don't see at least six recipes for it, with at least one of those having several high ratings, then I take it out of my cart. Unless it's something like Horchata which I want to use and develop in my own recipes.
Kopel raised a really good point about ATF. I don't have a subscription so I can't officially rate recipes. However, it's not just the rating that counts, it's the feedback as well. Kopel suggested using the FB comments section below the recipe to leave comments for the mixer. I mix a LOT of ATF recipes and never thought of doing that before. But I'll definitely start leaving comments now. It must be very discouraging for a mixer to work on a recipe for four months, release it on ATF and then never receive even one bit of confirmation that anybody has even tried it. The vast majority of recipes have nothing - no rating, not a single comment. Taking a few minutes to leave a comment will be a big help imo.
Wow... you guys get incredibly technical with your mixing... I simply mix together a couple of things that I feel like and see if it comes out ok... I also try some online recipes once in a while...
Some concoctions come out amazing... others not so much... some I'll try to adjust a bit if I see potential... others I just chuck aside...
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Some concoctions come out amazing... others not so much... some I'll try to adjust a bit if I see potential... others I just chuck aside...
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I'm with you there. That practice has kept me off cigarettes for over a year.
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I'm off cigarettes now for almost 6 months... and will never go back!
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Building a collection of concentrates is a slow process - especially if you're on a budget. In the beginning I placed big orders mainly of FA as HIC was my first go to guy. It was his recipes and notes that got me started.
I bounced around a lot in the next year or so, gathering recipes and buying the concentrates needed to make them. It cost a lot but was a lot of fun
More recently now, like you, I've become more selective as my tastes have developed and I know more about what I like. It is tough to sometimes see an appealing recipe and then spotting that one odd concentrate that I don't have. Mostly I can work around it as I feel I know enough to be able to sub to suit my tastes and stock. But I usually tweak a recipe if there are things I don't like (CAP Vanilla Custard I'm talking about you).
Slowly though I add a few new concentrates each time I restock on my regulars. But this comes with much research and isn't as compulsive as it used to be.
To tell the truth though I've reached a point where other people's recipes aren't that appealing - they just don't have the same tastes as me. So I've been enjoying the challenge of making my own recipes to get exactly what I want for my tastes.
I look at recipes now not to make, but to see how people create the flavour profiles. Every so often I'll mix up 10mls to check it out, but I'd say apart from my tried and tested regulars there are very few recipes I follow now.
It's a journey
Hey all, hoping someone can help, saw a recipe using INW Smoked Plum somewhere on the forum, pretty sure it was a local DIY recipe. If anyone can remember this recipe or the thread it was on please post the link.
Thanks
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Thanks
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@moonunit, I think it's used in a number of tobacco recipes like this one. Was it a tobacco or some other profile?
There was also this dessert.
There was also this dessert.
Check @rogue zombie's Plum Brulee I just linked in my earlier post.
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