Is local lekker?

[GregF]

For what its worth here is a list of Clyrolinx concentrates with a percentage that I have used in a recipe.
Obviously this is not a hard rule percentage, just somewhere to work around.
As Geoff from Clyrolinx says, work around 3%, and from this list you can see that is the case.
Where I have not successfully used it does not mean that it cannot be used successfully. Maybe I just don't like the taste or I gave up.
Where I have not used yet means I have not used it or cant remember what the hell I did.


Amaretto (CLY) - 1% Very strong. Have not succesfully used it in a recipe
Amarula (CLY) - 1% Very strong. Have not succesfully used it in a recipe
Aniseed (CLY) - not used yet
Apple (CLY) - 3%
Apple crumble (CLY) - 4%
Apricot (CLY) - 2%
Banana (CLY) - 0.5%
Berries (CLY) - 3%
Blackberry (CLY) - 2%
Blackcurrent (CLY) - 2%
Blueberry (CLY) - 2%
Brandy (CLY) - 1%
Brown Sugar (CLY) - 1%
Bourbon (CLY) - 1%
Buchu (CLY) - 1%
Butterscotch (CLY) - 3%
Caramel (CLY) - 2%
Caramel popcorn (CLY) - 3% Taste just like caramel popcorn. Even leaves that popcorn aftertaste that you get at the movies.
Carrot cake (CLY) - not used yet
Cerelac (CLY) - not used yet
Cheesecake (CLY) - 2%
Cherry (CLY) - 2%
Chocolate cherry (CLY) - not used yet
Cinnamon (CLY) - 0.5%
Cinnamon Fireball (CLY) - not used yet
Coconut (CLY) - 1%
Cola (CLY) - 3%
Condensed milk (CLY) - 2%
Cookies & cream (CLY) - 4%
Cranberry (CLY) - 3%
Cream (CLY) - 1%
Cream soda (CLY) - not used yet
Creamy coffee (CLY) - 2%
Custard (CLY) - 1%
Dragon Fruit (CLY) - 2%
English toffee (CLY) - 3% is quite strong toffee
Espresso coffee (CLY) - 3%
Fig Jam (CLY) - 1%
Grape (CLY) - 2%
Grapefruit (CLY) - not used yet
Guava (CLY) - 3% some like some dont
Hazelnut (CLY) - 0.5%
Honey (CLY) - 1% is quite strong
Honey melon (CLY) - 2%
Ice-cream (CLY) - 2%
Iron Brew (CLY) - not used yet
Jagermeister (CLY) - 2% is very strong after mixing but mellows after a few days
Kiwi fruit (CLY) - 3%
Lemon (CLY) - 0.5%
Lime (CLY) - not used yet
Liquorice (CLY) - not used yet
Litchi (CLY) - 3%
Macadamia (CLY) - not used yet
Malt (CLY) - 1%
Malva pudding (CLY) - 3%
Mango (CLY) - 3%
Maple (CLY) - 0.5%
Marshmallow (CLY) - 0.5%
Menthol (CLY) - 1%
Milk (CLY) - 2%
Milk chocolate (CLY) - 5%
Milk tart (CLY) - 3%
Mint (CLY) - 1%
Musk (CLY) - not used yet
Naartjie (CLY) - 3%
Orange (CLY) - 3%
Passion fruit (CLY) - 3%
Pawpaw (CLY) - 3%
Peach (CLY) - 3%
Peanut butter (CLY) - used 1% with Carmel popcorn and it seemed to work. Used 6% in other recipe and still battling to get that peanut butter.
Pear (CLY) - 3%
Pineapple (CLY) - 3%
Pistachio (CLY) - 2%
Plum (CLY) - 2%
Pommegranate (CLY) - 3%
Raspberry (CLY) - 3%
Red Energy (CLY) - 5% is more like red bull
Rose (CLY) - 1 drop to 10ml and it killed the juice. Have not tried it again.
Shortbread (CLY) - 1%
Spearmint (CLY) - 1%
Strawberries & cream (CLY) - 3%
Strawberry (CLY) - 3%
Strawberry milk (CLY) - 3%
Tobacco (CLY) - 2%
Turkish delight (CLY) - 3%
Tutti frutti (CLY) - 3%
Vanilla gold (CLY) - 1%
Vanilla Moirs (CLY) - 1%
Vanilla toffee (CLY) - 1% strong toffee taste
Vodka (CLY) - 2%
Watermelon (CLY) - 1%
Whiskey (CLY) - 1.5% to 3% depending how you like it. Mellows quite a bit after a day or two. Have used 5%
White chocolate (CLY) - 3% but has a sharp taste without a steep

 

[Warlock]

Thanks for that @GregF Thats quite an effort. Really appreciate it. The percentages are very encouraging. Have you ever asked them if the are going to expand their range?

 

[rogue zombie]

It doesn't really come down to whether the local stuff is good or not. It comes down to the fact that there is a plethora of information on the "big brands"... And knowledge is power.

 

[Warlock]

Depends on what you want really. I want to stop smoking. I want to do it as cheaply as possible and as quickly as possible. I would happly vape pg on its own if I had to. Now if it could taste a bit fruity or mentholy I’m happy.

 

[Huffapuff]

Is it not possible to use e-liquid-recipes.com to take notes on the local flavours?

As people test and add their notes wouldn't it calculate the average percentages automatically?

 

[GregF]

Depends on what you want really. I want to stop smoking. I want to do it as cheaply as possible and as quickly as possible. I would happly vape pg on its own if I had to. Now if it could taste a bit fruity or mentholy I’m happy.

If that works for you then great. For me personally I don't think I would have stopped smoking as abruptly as I did with my own diy juice.

 

[GregF]

It doesn't really come down to whether the local stuff is good or not. It comes down to the fact that there is a plethora of information on the "big brands"... And knowledge is power.

yup, that about sums it up

 

[boxerulez]

For what its worth here is a list of Clyrolinx concentrates with a percentage that I have used in a recipe.
Obviously this is not a hard rule percentage, just somewhere to work around.
As Geoff from Clyrolinx says, work around 3%, and from this list you can see that is the case.
Where I have not successfully used it does not mean that it cannot be used successfully. Maybe I just don't like the taste or I gave up.
Where I have not used yet means I have not used it or cant remember what the hell I did.


Amaretto (CLY) - 1% Very strong. Have not succesfully used it in a recipe
Amarula (CLY) - 1% Very strong. Have not succesfully used it in a recipe
Aniseed (CLY) - not used yet
Apple (CLY) - 3%
Apple crumble (CLY) - 4%
Apricot (CLY) - 2%
Banana (CLY) - 0.5%
Berries (CLY) - 3%
Blackberry (CLY) - 2%
Blackcurrent (CLY) - 2%
Blueberry (CLY) - 2%
Brandy (CLY) - 1%
Brown Sugar (CLY) - 1%
Bourbon (CLY) - 1%
Buchu (CLY) - 1%
Butterscotch (CLY) - 3%
Caramel (CLY) - 2%
Caramel popcorn (CLY) - 3% Taste just like caramel popcorn. Even leaves that popcorn aftertaste that you get at the movies.
Carrot cake (CLY) - not used yet
Cerelac (CLY) - not used yet
Cheesecake (CLY) - 2%
Cherry (CLY) - 2%
Chocolate cherry (CLY) - not used yet
Cinnamon (CLY) - 0.5%
Cinnamon Fireball (CLY) - not used yet
Coconut (CLY) - 1%
Cola (CLY) - 3%
Condensed milk (CLY) - 2%
Cookies & cream (CLY) - 4%
Cranberry (CLY) - 3%
Cream (CLY) - 1%
Cream soda (CLY) - not used yet
Creamy coffee (CLY) - 2%
Custard (CLY) - 1%
Dragon Fruit (CLY) - 2%
English toffee (CLY) - 3% is quite strong toffee
Espresso coffee (CLY) - 3%
Fig Jam (CLY) - 1%
Grape (CLY) - 2%
Grapefruit (CLY) - not used yet
Guava (CLY) - 3% some like some dont
Hazelnut (CLY) - 0.5%
Honey (CLY) - 1% is quite strong
Honey melon (CLY) - 2%
Ice-cream (CLY) - 2%
Iron Brew (CLY) - not used yet
Jagermeister (CLY) - 2% is very strong after mixing but mellows after a few days
Kiwi fruit (CLY) - 3%
Lemon (CLY) - 0.5%
Lime (CLY) - not used yet
Liquorice (CLY) - not used yet
Litchi (CLY) - 3%
Macadamia (CLY) - not used yet
Malt (CLY) - 1%
Malva pudding (CLY) - 3%
Mango (CLY) - 3%
Maple (CLY) - 0.5%
Marshmallow (CLY) - 0.5%
Menthol (CLY) - 1%
Milk (CLY) - 2%
Milk chocolate (CLY) - 5%
Milk tart (CLY) - 3%
Mint (CLY) - 1%
Musk (CLY) - not used yet
Naartjie (CLY) - 3%
Orange (CLY) - 3%
Passion fruit (CLY) - 3%
Pawpaw (CLY) - 3%
Peach (CLY) - 3%
Peanut butter (CLY) - used 1% with Carmel popcorn and it seemed to work. Used 6% in other recipe and still battling to get that peanut butter.
Pear (CLY) - 3%
Pineapple (CLY) - 3%
Pistachio (CLY) - 2%
Plum (CLY) - 2%
Pommegranate (CLY) - 3%
Raspberry (CLY) - 3%
Red Energy (CLY) - 5% is more like red bull
Rose (CLY) - 1 drop to 10ml and it killed the juice. Have not tried it again.
Shortbread (CLY) - 1%
Spearmint (CLY) - 1%
Strawberries & cream (CLY) - 3%
Strawberry (CLY) - 3%
Strawberry milk (CLY) - 3%
Tobacco (CLY) - 2%
Turkish delight (CLY) - 3%
Tutti frutti (CLY) - 3%
Vanilla gold (CLY) - 1%
Vanilla Moirs (CLY) - 1%
Vanilla toffee (CLY) - 1% strong toffee taste
Vodka (CLY) - 2%
Watermelon (CLY) - 1%
Whiskey (CLY) - 1.5% to 3% depending how you like it. Mellows quite a bit after a day or two. Have used 5%
White chocolate (CLY) - 3% but has a sharp taste without a steep

How did you reduce the peppery throat hit? And how long did you steep?
I got the 70/30 premix from him with 3mg nic.

No matter how little or how much concentrates I add i always get that damn peppery hit.

Sent from my SM-A500F using Tapatalk

 

[GregF]

Thanks for that @GregF Thats quite an effort. Really appreciate it. The percentages are very encouraging. Have you ever asked them if the are going to expand their range?

They have just recently expanded their range to what it is now.
Geoff did say that he does not think there will be another flavour added anytime soon.
They supply the food industry and it depends on the lab as to what concentrate they can make Diacetyl, Acetyl Propionyl, Acetoin and Alcohol free.

 

[GregF]

How did you reduce the peppery throat hit? And how long did you steep?
I got the 70/30 premix from him with 3mg nic.

No matter how little or how much concentrates I add i always get that damn peppery hit.

Sent from my SM-A500F using Tapatalk

My son had a problem with the throat hit. I reduced his nic from 3 to 1.5 and boom, all gone.

 

[Soutie]

i know personally i prefer to use the big import brands as they are the most used world-wide and there-fore "safer" well atleast no one has died from them yet. lol i would really like it first resellers could provide the orginal brand so one can research it and therefore feel more confident in the product.
no point saving a little bit of money if you end up some health issue from pro-longed use of a cheap concentrate.
also i was going through some of the site mentioned above and im seeing percentages as high as 18% and those ones being tobacco ones which personally i feel thats insanely high. most of the tobaccos i use are max 5% so either they are really weak or dilution is happening.

This is a good point and one that worries me.

FW was called out a few months ago for using sugars in their flavours, namely fructose, and they are quite a large brand. Now this is something that I personally don't mind BUT some people won't use their flavours because of this fact, well the concentrates that contain the fructose anyway. This boils down to personal choice.

The only reason this was case is that there was information available on these concentrates, the local stuff seems to be 'Trust us it's safe, but we can't give more info than that'. We don't even know what lab makes it and if it is classified for vaping.

I can go onto PrimeNic's site and get their USP35 certification so I know that if I buy from a local vendor importing PrimeNic exactly what I'm getting. What am I getting from clyrolinx, where do they source their nicotine? There is no information on their site about where anything comes from.

 

[SAVaper]

I said I would be willing to test some flavours but I must admit that all this made me think.

I started vaping for one reason only - my health.

How do I know that the bottle labelled CAP or TFA is actually the original imported CAP and TFA?

 

[Soutie]

I said I would be willing to test some flavours but I must admit that all this made me think.

I started vaping for one reason only - my health.

How do I know that the bottle labelled CAP or TFA is actually the original imported CAP and TFA?

That I'm not too worried about for multiple reasons. If I follow a complex recipe that calls for cap or tfa it tastes like it should. You also have the option of contacting CAP/TFA and finding out if they do supply X. There is a chain of accountability and an 'Openness' in this practice.

 

[Silver]

Sounds like a plan! Not sure how to do this - perhaps post findings on this thread or start a new one?

I'll start with a couple from each vendor and post findings...

Hi @Rude Rudi

Big ups to you and the other guys for wanting to improve the understanding on the local concentrates.

We have a "Concentrates" reviews subforum inside the Reviews category
I have created two additional threads there, one for Clyrolinx and one for Pirates Grog. There is already one thread there for Vapour Mountain with some content in it already.

Feel free to use those to record your findings on these local concentrates

Here are the links to those threads
http://www.ecigssa.co.za/clyrolinx-concentrate-reviews.t26602
http://www.ecigssa.co.za/pirates-grog-concentrate-reviews.t26603/
http://www.ecigssa.co.za/vapour-mountain-concentrate-reviews.t2247/

 

[Andre]

I said I would be willing to test some flavours but I must admit that all this made me think.

I started vaping for one reason only - my health.

How do I know that the bottle labelled CAP or TFA is actually the original imported CAP and TFA?

Hehe, that crossed my mind too, but realized they would be caught out very quickly. E.g. I have the same flavour in the same brand from more than one vendor and I even have that same flavour and brand in the original manufacturer's bottle. If it is not the real thing I would immediately notice and, as @Soutie says, if your recipe suddenly taste different you will know.

 

[Rude Rudi]

Hi @Rude Rudi

Big ups to you and the other guys for wanting to improve the understanding on the local concentrates.

We have a "Concentrates" reviews subforum inside the Reviews category
I have created two additional threads there, one for Clyrolinx and one for Pirates Grog. There is already one thread there for Vapour Mountain with some content in it already.

Feel free to use those to record your findings on these local concentrates

Here are the links to those threads
http://www.ecigssa.co.za/clyrolinx-concentrate-reviews.t26602
http://www.ecigssa.co.za/pirates-grog-concentrate-reviews.t26603/
http://www.ecigssa.co.za/vapour-mountain-concentrate-reviews.t2247/

Thanks so much for this!! It will assist in our Local is Lekker journey!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[rogue zombie]

I said I would be willing to test some flavours but I must admit that all this made me think.

I started vaping for one reason only - my health.

How do I know that the bottle labelled CAP or TFA is actually the original imported CAP and TFA?

People following recipes would pick up right away. If the flavours werent what they said they are, the recipes you follow wouldnt turn out right. This is as we know a reletively exact science.

I also dont see the point. Imported flavours are not expensive, so i dont see why a retailer would "cheat" to make an extra buck.

Lastly, as we also know, buying concentrates is highly addictive so to me it would make sense to keep the customer happy, not cheat them.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

[Flavor man]

Most flavor concentrates are imported by local flavor houses. The flavors for ecigs are carefully regulated as prescribed by the FDA as to what aromatic chemicals can be used and which ones are harmful. The aromatics that are potentially harmful should be excluded from the final flavor formula. This is being done by reputable international flavor houses. A whole new flavor science has been introduced concentrating on the safe development of ecig flavors. This is carefully regulated by the food and drug administration of America. A lot more research and tests are being done by the FDA as to the safety of vaping aromatics used in flavors.
It is important to note that most local concentrated flavor suppliers import flavors that have been regulated and are considered safe. These concentrated flavors are supplied in bulk to companies that break them down with certain solvents with the addition of nicotine and retail them as ecig ready to use flavors.

Do you think that there is a market for concentrated flavors, where you purchase the concentrate, and add your own solvents and nicotine.??


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[RichJB]

Flavor man, has the FDA had any impact on vaping safety? My sense is that they haven't. They have only just been given permission to add vaping to the scope of their responsibilities under the existing tobacco regulations, and admit themselves that their knowledge of vaping safety is very limited at this point. It should also be noted that the FDA itself doesn't undertake testing, they merely review the results of testing by independent labs.

Where the FDA have had a long association is in regulating the food flavourings sector, which is very mature and safety-conscious. However, they are insistent that the Generally Regarded As Safe (GRAS) classification which applies to things like VG, PG and most flavourings is applicable only to ingestion, not inhalation.

I think most research into vaping safety at this point has been conducted by the vaping industry itself, the tobacco industry and by independent bodies like universities. The diacetyl issue, for example, was kick-started by a Harvard research study, not by the FDA. At that point, the FDA had no regulatory oversight of vaping products and thus no mandate to demand testing. Vaping has been largely unregulated until now, and I think the impact of EU and FDA regulations will only be felt once these regs have been passed and implemented.

I'm not too concerned at potential health risks of smaller/less known flavour houses. As I said, the food flavourings sector is very mature and I would imagine that most manufacturers use much the same chemicals and processes. For example, almost every flavour manufacturer was using diacetyl widely. Even if the smaller flavour houses aren't conducting their own vaping research, they will respond to findings just as the industry leaders do. Almost all flavour houses have now removed diketones from their flavours.

That doesn't mean that flavourings are now safe. Ongoing research may find that chemical X is hazardous. However, imo it is just as likely that chemical X will be in FA's or TFA's flavourings as in the smaller flavour houses' flavourings. I doubt that any smaller flavour houses are using chemicals which are entirely unknown to or unused by the bigger industry leaders. As long as local retailers are repackaging/reselling flavours originally formulated in the US or EU, I would feel reasonably safe.

 

[Spydro]

That is true taste is so subjective but it would be nice to have a taste chart so to speak where people could give their own opinion on how they feel a certain concentrate tastes.
Some people might say they get the caramel but it has a burnt sugar after taste or words to that effect.
For me I would just say yes I like it or I don't. I don't have the flair or extravagance as some of these guys.

I can relate to some of that. When I first started DIY I bought something over 50 flavor concentrates from a specific vendor that I also got the PG, VG and some Nic from (I bought all my lab gear from scientific supply houses). Both the vendor and the brand of the concentrates was what was most often suggested by all the other folks that responded to my questions on a forum. And soon after added close to another 50 flavors. Big mistake on my part as I soon found that there were many categories of flavors that I didn't like to vape at all (fruits, bakery, candy, most desserts, etc). The flavors were all TPA/TFA and all came from an outfit called Wizard Labs. There was a flavor percentage range list online for all of the TFA products to use as a guide (there is a more advanced list now). With no idea otherwise the list helped me as I did flavors one at a time to find what percentage of those tried I liked best personally. From there I explored on my own trying 2 flavor recipe batches to find what flavors complimented each other, what didn't, then 3 flavors and so on for my tastes. But the comments made by other folks about any of the flavors themselves OR their recipes based on their experiences with them I pretty much ignored. I found my flavor niche for each myself, and with that experience learned how to find it even with new to me flavors as I bought them and for the recipes I design for them quite easily.

 

[Huffapuff]

How did you reduce the peppery throat hit? And how long did you steep?
I got the 70/30 premix from him with 3mg nic.

No matter how little or how much concentrates I add i always get that damn peppery hit.

Sent from my SM-A500F using Tapatalk

If I'm not mistaken the peppery effect is due to the low quality of the nic. Vapers Tek seems to produce the cleanest nicotine but I'm yet to find it here in SA

 

[Soutie]

Vanilla in a vape can also cause a peppery taste in a vape if you are sensitive to it.

Maybe look at the nic first then the flavoring that's in you joose

 

[boxerulez]

Well my next batch would be NIC free so lets hope.

Sent from my SM-A500F using Tapatalk

 

[Rude Rudi]

OK, order placed for some local goodies - will keep you posted.

 

[Viracocha]

Have only been DIY for 2 months now, before that only had 3 different ready mixes from 3 different vendors. I find it best to stick to one local supplier for DIY concentrates for the simple reasons "it's cheaper" and if I want to make a quick change in my order or an add on, it's a phone call away. I want to use Valley Vapour as my example: by 10 concentrates and get 10% off, by 25 and get 15%, buy 50 and get 20% off, a quick email to them on short notice and they changed my order to suite my fancy, really exceptional service. Now I've bought from two other vendors just because Valley didn't had all my required flavours at a stage, Vapowave and Black vapour, both off them exceptional e-service in my opinion. But yes taste is objective and after all I vote for Spydro's approach, to find your own creations, this way you find the notes in each of your concentrates according your own taste buds.
To me Local is lekker, and the more I buy local the stronger they get and cheaper they'll be able to supply. Now I expect the local suppliers to stand up and come with an announcement that they''l all have initiatives in order to support us, bring it on what do we get for keeping our business local !! Get competitive pricing wise, look after us and we''ll support you even more.