What is a milliliter?!

[SHiBBY]

Seems simple enough right? But apparently it's not. You see, it has come to my attention that not all syringes are created equally. You may have seen me ranting about bland tasting juices, and today I took one full 1ml syringe and poured it into the next... and the next... and the next, and none of them had the same reading as the next or the first which begs the question: What is a true milliliter?! How do I know if I use a 1ml, 5ml, 10ml, 20ml and 50ml syringe to make my DIY juices, that all have the same standards when it comes to what is defined as one milliliter?

I was told that it's more accurate to use drops, but then I can't very well drop out 32ml of VG, nor will a drop of VG be the same as PG? What's the right way to measure all the components of a recipe?

Your help is appreciated

 

[Adephi]

Seems simple enough right? But apparently it's not. You see, it has come to my attention that not all syringes are created equally. You may have seen me ranting about bland tasting juices, and today I took one full 1ml syringe and poured it into the next... and the next... and the next, and none of them had the same reading as the next or the first which begs the question: What is a true milliliter?! How do I know if I use a 1ml, 5ml, 10ml, 20ml and 50ml syringe to make my DIY juices, that all have the same standards when it comes to what is defined as one milliliter?

I was told that it's more accurate to use drops, but then I can't very well drop out 32ml of VG, nor will a drop of VG be the same as PG? What's the right way to measure all the components of a recipe?

Your help is appreciated

Scrap all that and mix by weight. Easier, cleaner, faster and much more accurate.

 

[BumbleBee]

@SHiBBY you need a good scale, syringes are a pain in the... erm... they’re messy

 

[Willielieb]

yeah use a scale , i used syringes aswell until i saw the light xD . they are rather cheap and very useful.

 

[RichJB]

I was told that it's more accurate to use drops

No, different bottles dispense different sized drops depending on the dropper tip. A 10ml PET bottle with a needle tip, such as the bottles used by Blck now, delivers much smaller drops than their old HDPE bottles.

With syringes as with most cheap mass-produced items, accuracy won't be great. You would really need a proper set of lab-grade syringes. The scales we use probably aren't very accurate either but they'll be better than syringes. Not least because the scale display can show differences down to 0.01g. You will never judge 0.01ml with your eye, regardless of how accurate the syringe is. So, as per others' advice, I'd recommend buying a scale.

 

[Faiyaz Cheulkar]

Using a scale is the best way.
Was watching an episode of breaking bad where they mix water in a tanker of methylene. Also there was a thread once about the flavours loosing potency over time.
I always think what's stopping a retailer or the manufacturer to add some pg in some concentrates to make some extra bucks. Afterall 10 ml of concetrate cost around r25 and one ml of Pg in it means an extra profit of r2.5. I am not saying or accusing any vendor, just a thought.
We are all so particular about measuring Cc's and ml's and mg's but what if the batch itself is loose and lacks potency. There are no tests that we can do to measure the potency of a concentrate, even if there is it will be too time consuming for an individual to do for the limited quantity he produces for personal consumption.
So I just do my best when mixing and mention my juice in my prayers.

 

[Raindance]

Using a scale is the best way.
Was watching an episode of breaking bad where they mix water in a tanker of methylene. Also there was a thread once about the flavours loosing potency over time.
I always think what's stopping a retailer or the manufacturer to add some pg in some concentrates to make some extra bucks. Afterall 10 ml of concetrate cost around r25 and one ml of Pg in it means an extra profit of r2.5. I am not saying or accusing any vendor, just a thought.
We are all so particular about measuring Cc's and ml's and mg's but what if the batch itself is loose and lacks potency. There no tests that we can do to measure the potency of a concentrate, even if there is it will be too time consuming for an individual to do.
So I just do my best when mixing and mention my juice in my prayers.

Coming back to the original question, a milliliter is a volume measure of one cubic centimeter.

Even earths gravitational field is not consistent over its entire surface, so even a scale does not secure total accuracy. Admittedly, for the most part variations are insignificant in terms of our purpose. The potential margin of error on small volume mixes is larger than on larger volumes. A 0.25 milliliter error on a 1ml addition in a 10ml mix is far more significant than the same error on the 3ml of concentrate in a in a 30ml mix. That is the reason I mix 30ml testers of new recipes.

Regards

 

[Steyn777]

 

[Timwis]

It's simply inaccurate syringes. a millilitre is a thousandth of a litre. A litre is always a litre and a millilitre is always a millilitre it never changes there are no variants or margin of error. Those that suggest getting scales can be very pricey if the scales are not expensive sophisticated ones they are likely to have nearly as much inaccuracy has syringes (although maybe not quite as inaccurate). Personally i mix 100ml mixes at a time so i'm more than happy to stick with syringes but would agree very good scales would be better for small mixes but be prepared to upset the bank manager else you might as well not bother.

 

[Steyn777]

It's simply inaccurate syringes. a millilitre is a thousandth of a litre. A litre is always a litre and a millilitre is always a millilitre it never changes there are no variants or margin of error. Those that suggest getting scales can be very pricey if the scales are not expensive sophisticated ones they are likely to have nearly as much inaccuracy has syringes (although maybe not quite as inaccurate). Personally i mix 100ml mixes at a time so i'm more than happy to stick with syringes but would agree very good scales would be better for small mixes but be prepared to upset the bank manager else you might as well not bother.

I'm sure you didn't mix up the syringes and scales preference here which makes me curious. Why syringes for the large and scales for the little?

Another thing that I think you're overlooking: When mixing a recipe from a mixer found on ATF or ELR, I'm sure said mixer when creating and mixing the recipe probably used a scale or syringe very much similar to what we all would use...

 

[Timwis]

I'm sure you didn't mix up the syringes and scales preference here which makes me curious. Why syringes for the large and scales for the little?

Another thing that I think you're overlooking: When mixing a recipe from a mixer found on ATF or ELR, I'm sure said mixer when creating and mixing the recipe probably used a scale or syringe very much similar to what we all would use...

I would use syringes full stop so no mixing up of preferences i just think there is more of a case for buying expensive scales if making small amounts because slight inaccuracies would make a bigger difference to a small quantity mix. Just my opinion.

 

[Steyn777]

I would use syringes full stop so no mixing up of preferences i just think there is more of a case for buying expensive scales if making small amounts because slight inaccuracies would make a bigger difference to a small quantity mix. Just my opinion.

The thing is the scales are not expensive at all, it's way more convenient, it's accurate, it's less messy, and it takes less than half the time than mixing with syringes. Give it a go...if you don't like it after giving it a fair chance, I'll buy the scale from you at the price you paid for it. (Have a look at the small one on Blck)

 

[Adephi]

The thing is the scales are not expensive at all, it's way more convenient, it's accurate, it's less messy, and it takes less than half the time than mixing with syringes. Give it a go...if you don't like it after giving it a fair chance, I'll buy the scale from you at the price you paid for it. (Have a look at the small one on Blck)

Lol, the courier fees from the UK will be more than the scale.

I think @Timwis refer to the more expensive laboratory grade scales that commercial juice makers and mixing pro's use. Yes those ones can be very pricey but is very accurate.

For personal use the smaller jewelry scales are fine to use.

 

[Timwis]

The thing is the scales are not expensive at all, it's way more convenient, it's accurate, it's less messy, and it takes less than half the time than mixing with syringes. Give it a go...if you don't like it after giving it a fair chance, I'll buy the scale from you at the price you paid for it. (Have a look at the small one on Blck)

If scales say it's 100g on them how do you know it's 100g? scales vary in price right up to very expensive. The expensive one's are expensive for a reason, accuracy. I have worked at a place where all equipment (including scales) have to be regularly calibrated because over time they get less accurate.

 

[craigb]

One thing I learnt at a previous job about statutory reporting that applies to this situation too...

It's OK to be wrong, as long as you are consistently wrong. So if you use the same syringes with the same margin of error everytime, your end result will always be the same. This allows you to make subsequent micro adjustments to suit your tastes that should result in a consistent vape.

 

[Steyn777]

If scales say it's 100g on them how do you know it's 100g? scales vary in price right up to very expensive. The expensive one's are expensive for a reason, accuracy. I have worked at a place where all equipment (including scales) have to be regularly calibrated because over time they get less accurate.

I fully understand your point @Timwis but if we go down this route then 1st start with, When ID10-T mixed up Mother of Dragons, when he measured the dragonfruit, how do we know that scale was accurate? And before the end of the day we start questioning things like, "how do I know that what I see as the colour red, is the same colour Jason sees as red"? Things just spiral down from there man.

 

[Gimli]

I can agree that scales will be more accurate than syringes, but going back to the original post.
Technically all recipes are just a ratio between ingredients so if you are using a cheap syringe or even a scale, as long as all the ingredients are measures with the same instruments, then the end result should be the same, wouldn't it?

 

[SHiBBY]

Thanks for all the feedback

While minor differences would not be a problem as long as all the ingredients are added using a single syringe (i.e. the concentrate ratios would match that of the recipe), the particular 1ml syringe I was using turned out to only be around 0.6ml whilst the larger syringes used for measuring the pg, vg and nic all had matching "actual" 1ml's, ergo my flavour was heavily muted and I did not understand why.

I realised the error and went ahead and added another set of concentrate to sort it out, which immediately tasted better. Unfortunately, the experience has made me lose all trust in syringes. I might scrap all my syringes and buy a matching set from the same manufacturer to ensure that 1ml = 1ml, and then get a scale too for good measure.

 

[StompieZA]

The one thing i need......a scale!

Been using drops for the last couple months and a 0.5ml syringe and juices are full of flavor but flip its a mission to sit and count to 40 drops of one flavor...lol

With BLCK's thin tip bottles, i usually add another two drops above the calculated drops due to the drops being smaller than the PET bottle tips.

 

[Ruwaid]

The thing is the scales are not expensive at all, it's way more convenient, it's accurate, it's less messy, and it takes less than half the time than mixing with syringes. Give it a go...if you don't like it after giving it a fair chance, I'll buy the scale from you at the price you paid for it. (Have a look at the small one on Blck)

@Steyn777 this one bud? Any good for a beginner with a beginner budget?

 

[Ruwaid]

Sorry for the slight deviation above but very interesting read cos as its stands my cart on BLCK is about to be checked out with many syringes included in the order....now I question that and if a scale would be better!

 

[Adephi]

@Steyn777 this one bud? Any good for a beginner with a beginner budget?
View attachment 139844

Thats the one I have been using. Can mix anything from 10ml to 100ml comfortably.

 

[craigb]

@Steyn777 this one bud? Any good for a beginner with a beginner budget?
View attachment 139844

I can attest for the slightly bigger one. If you can get that rather. But if this is all the budget allows, at least it will provide consistency.

Sorry for the slight deviation above but very interesting read cos as its stands my cart on BLCK is about to be checked out with many syringes included in the order....now I question that and if a scale would be better!

Trash the syringes, get a scale. It's an upfront investment but worth it in happiness and satisfaction.

 

[StompieZA]

Sorry for the slight deviation above but very interesting read cos as its stands my cart on BLCK is about to be checked out with many syringes included in the order....now I question that and if a scale would be better!

Get the Scale!

Will be putting in my order as well today from BLCK and do the switch to scales.

Actually cannot believe i have been battling like this for 2+ years while DIYing.

 

[SHiBBY]

Looks like BLCK actually has a lot of awesome useful DIY accessories to ease the process In the end its a laboratory process and should be treated as such I guess. These Dischem syringes into a glass in front of my laptop is not cutting it anymore. I want to make decent stuff. Might as well invest another 500 bucks and get some decent gear. Also need to build another magnetic stirrer and/or shaker to prep my brews for the ultrasonic. Theres such an awesome Nitecore heated stirred in the classfieds at the moment but I can't afford that type of expense right now. Baby steps