Nic salts - yay or nay?

[Jean claude Vaaldamme]

But here is my problem. Ok firstly just want to say this, I am by no means an expert and did not do much research. WhileI was smoking I just enjoyed it, was never bothered about the health risks. But with me little understanding it seemed that the tar etc in cigarettes did damage to your lungs, causing cancer , emphysema etc. But thats only a percentage off the problem. My understanding was that nicotene clot your arteries, causing heart dissease, heart attacks etc. Look how many smokers have amputated limbs.

So like I say, I dont know if that is really true, but if it is, should you not try to get off all kinds of nicotene if you vaping for health reasons?

 

[Viper_SA]

But here is my problem. Ok firstly just want to say this, I am by no means an expert and did not do much research. WhileI was smoking I just enjoyed it, was never bothered about the health risks. But with me little understanding it seemed that the tar etc in cigarettes did damage to your lungs, causing cancer , emphysema etc. But thats only a percentage off the problem. My understanding was that nicotene clot your arteries, causing heart dissease, heart attacks etc. Look how many smokers have amputated limbs.

So like I say, I dont know if that is really true, but if it is, should you not try to get off all kinds of nicotene if you vaping for health reasons?

Nicotine is found in many food sources, like tomato for instance, and we have a gland on the pankreas that produce nicotine. Nicotine in itself is not the culprit, but the byproducts of combustion. When you start smoking, that gland on the pankreas stop working because you're overdosing. Takes up to 3 months to kick-start again, hence the withdrawal symptoms.

 

[Silver]

But here is my problem. Ok firstly just want to say this, I am by no means an expert and did not do much research. WhileI was smoking I just enjoyed it, was never bothered about the health risks. But with me little understanding it seemed that the tar etc in cigarettes did damage to your lungs, causing cancer , emphysema etc. But thats only a percentage off the problem. My understanding was that nicotene clot your arteries, causing heart dissease, heart attacks etc. Look how many smokers have amputated limbs.

So like I say, I dont know if that is really true, but if it is, should you not try to get off all kinds of nicotene if you vaping for health reasons?

Hi @Jean claude Vaaldamme

From my understanding, the nicotine in cigarettes is not what causes the majority of smoking related illnesses and premature death. As you say, its the tar that clogs up the lungs and the carcinogens that cause all the different cancers associated with smoking.

The nicotine itself is a stimulant and does raise your blood pressure and heart rate - but to my understanding in itself it is quite similar to caffeine. I don't think its good for you (better to not have it - although there are some cases where nicotine has some advantages) but i don't think nicotine is the main killer in cigarettes.

Despite that I do agree that it would be better to try wean oneself off the nicotine over time.

 

[Viper_SA]

Hi @Jean claude Vaaldamme

From my understanding, the nicotine in cigarettes is not what causes the majority of smoking related illnesses and premature death. As you say, its the tar that clogs up the lungs and the carcinogens that cause all the different cancers associated with smoking.

The nicotine itself is a stimulant and does raise your blood pressure and heart rate - but to my understanding in itself it is quite similar to caffeine. I don't think its good for you (better to not have it - although there are some cases where nicotine has some advantages) but i don't think nicotine is the killer in cigarettes.

Despite that I do agree that it would be better to try wean oneself off the nicotine over time.

Nicotine just about cured my irritable bowel syndrome, ill never quit nicotine. Even if I have to resort to stinkies again, my nicotine I shall have

 

[Beserker786]

Guys, can’t I get nicotine salts in 3mg? Is that different to 3mg freebase? Like can I use it in our normal juice etc?

 

[Jean claude Vaaldamme]

Quick google gave me this
Side effects
Nicotine causes a wide range of side effects in most organs and systems.

The circulation of the blood can be affected in the following ways:

• an increased clotting tendency, leading to a risk of harmful blood clots
• atherosclerosis, in which plaque forms on the artery wall
• enlargement of the aorta

Side effects in the brain include:

• dizziness and lightheadedness
• irregular and disturbed sleep
• bad dreams and nightmares
• possible blood restriction

In the gastrointestinal system, nicotine can have the following effects:

• nausea and vomiting
• dry mouth, or xerostomia
• indigestion
• peptic ulcers
• diarrhea
• heartburn

The heart can experience the following after taking in nicotine:

• changes in heart rate and rhythm
• an increase in blood pressure
• constrictions and diseases of the coronary artery
• an increased risk of stroke

 

[Viper_SA]

Yeah, I'm not buying that. Most of those sound to me like side effects of old school nicotine fixes, i. e. combustion. It's the same where for many years doctors blamed heart attacks on fatty diets, when it has now come to light that fats actually repair artery walls where they were damaged by sugar, hence the decrease sugar drive imo

 

[RichJB]

I would like to know what the defference is nicotine is between someone getting quick fix every hour or two on nic salts, and a person sucking on his mod the whole day at 3 or 6mg nic, consuming 20-30ml a day?

If you can take one or two puffs an hour of a pod with 60mg salts, great. I can't. For me, vaping is as much about a mechanical routine as it is about nicotine intake. If I had to replace my DL equipment with a pod, I'd vape exactly the same number of puffs because I'd have the same routine. But with the higher nic, I'd very quickly get accustomed to taking in vastly more nic than currently. Then I'd need to start stealth vaping while shopping in PnP, and so on.

Currently, I can go without vaping for 5-6 hours and it doesn't affect me. That's only because I consciously worked myself down to around 10ml of 1.5mg juice daily. That's 15 'units' of nic a day. If I started with salts, guaranteed I'd need 100 units a day within a week. And if I didn't get it, I'd be climbing the walls within two hours of not being able to vape. It's not a place I'm going back to willingly.

 

[Silver]

Quick google gave me this
Side effects
Nicotine causes a wide range of side effects in most organs and systems.

The circulation of the blood can be affected in the following ways:

• an increased clotting tendency, leading to a risk of harmful blood clots
• atherosclerosis, in which plaque forms on the artery wall
• enlargement of the aorta

Side effects in the brain include:

• dizziness and lightheadedness
• irregular and disturbed sleep
• bad dreams and nightmares
• possible blood restriction

In the gastrointestinal system, nicotine can have the following effects:

• nausea and vomiting
• dry mouth, or xerostomia
• indigestion
• peptic ulcers
• diarrhea
• heartburn

The heart can experience the following after taking in nicotine:

• changes in heart rate and rhythm
• an increase in blood pressure
• constrictions and diseases of the coronary artery
• an increased risk of stroke

I agree with you @Jean claude Vaaldamme - nicotine is not good or harmless - and I think it is something one should try wean oneself off from

All I was saying a few posts back is that I think nicotine is not the main culprit in smoking - when it comes to the bad health effects

 

[Raindance]

Quick google gave me this
Side effects
Nicotine causes a wide range of side effects in most organs and systems.

The circulation of the blood can be affected in the following ways:

• an increased clotting tendency, leading to a risk of harmful blood clots
• atherosclerosis, in which plaque forms on the artery wall
• enlargement of the aorta

Side effects in the brain include:

• dizziness and lightheadedness
• irregular and disturbed sleep
• bad dreams and nightmares
• possible blood restriction

In the gastrointestinal system, nicotine can have the following effects:

• nausea and vomiting
• dry mouth, or xerostomia
• indigestion
• peptic ulcers
• diarrhea
• heartburn

The heart can experience the following after taking in nicotine:

• changes in heart rate and rhythm
• an increase in blood pressure
• constrictions and diseases of the coronary artery
• an increased risk of stroke

Those do look like the effects of an overdose and may (not making a claim of any sort here) not be the case at the levels we expose ourselves to using freebase nic. Maybe nic salts does get you closer to those levels seeing the levels and absorption rates being much higher.

I am also sceptic on the stated facts as they may have been based on the effects observed when consuming nic from a combustable source in which case many of those effects could be the result of hundreds of other chemicals. One would need to see the complete research paper those results are based on.

Regards

 

[Jean claude Vaaldamme]

Those do look like the effects of an overdose and may (not making a claim of any sort here) not be the case at the levels we expose ourselves to using freebase nic. Maybe nic salts does get you closer to those levels seeing the levels and absorption rates being much higher.

I am also sceptic on the stated facts as they may have been based on the effects observed when consuming nic from a combustable source in which case many of those effects could be the result of hundreds of other chemicals. One would need to see the complete research paper those results are based on.

Regards

Just the first article I google, by no means conclusive, but it do seem to be not only based on smoking
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/240820.php

 

[Raindance]

How the body processes nicotine
After inhaling tobacco smoke, nicotine rapidly enters the bloodstream, crosses the blood-brain barrier, and reaches the brain within 8 to 20 seconds. Within approximately 2 hours after entering the body, half of the nicotine has gone.

How much nicotine may enter a smoker's body depends on:

• the type of tobacco being used
• whether or not the smoker inhales the smoke
• whether a filter is used, and what type of filter it is

Tobacco products that are chewed, placed inside the mouth, or snorted tend to release considerably larger amounts of nicotine into the body than smoking.

Nicotine is broken down in the liver.

The above from the article.

Just the first article I google, by no means conclusive, but it do seem to be not only based on smoking
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/240820.php

 

[Hooked]

Guys, can’t I get nicotine salts in 3mg? Is that different to 3mg freebase? Like can I use it in our normal juice etc?

@Beserker786 I don't know if you can buy nic salts in 3mg, but I've had juice which contains only 3mg nic salts:

https://www.ecigssa.co.za/milkshake-liquids-reviews.t49013/

 

[Hooked]

Good question @Jean claude Vaaldamme

With normal nic juice I suppose one vapes more or less depending on the nic content. I know with myself. If I take a few 18mg MTL toots I am sorted for a while. Before feeling I want to vape more. But with 3mg, even on a more powerful setup I can puff away and it feels like I need more. So yes, I suppose if you vape low strength or high strength you will vape what you need.

The issue with Nic Salts though (the way I see it and I am no expert) is that you get very strong liquids and if you vape them in a more powerful setup, my feeling is that its easier to get way more nicotine than with normal nic. (It absorbs better into your system). And with much lower throat hit, its likely to be easier to get too much nic.

I don't know but that is my feeling.

@Silver @Jean claude Vaaldamme Nic salts shouldn't be vaped in a powerful setup, unless the nic strength is low approx. below 10mg. I've yet to buy a bottle of nic salts with such a low strength. The lowest I've seen is 20mg. High nic, whether nic salts or freebase, should be vaped only at low wattage (approx. 10W) and never sub-ohm.

 

[Hooked]

I vape nic salts every day - but not all day. I just take a few puffs here and there when I feel the need for a turbo charge.

 

[Waine]

I enjoy nic salts. You use less juice. You vape less. It's almost akin to learning to smoke a tight cigar, for want of a better description.

The salts and MTL combo is a different style completely. However, MTL and especially nic salts are new territory with unknown health results. The benzene extraction process (something like that) is a concern. It's a risk, but I am not sorry I went down the nic Salts rabbit creek. My 4 Berserker Mini's, and the recent addition: the BSKR V1.5, with my many different salts, I rate it better than conventional e-liquid and Atomizers, if I had to choose one.

It may also be an age thing.

So it's a big "yay" from me @Silver

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

 

[Hooked]

Just by the way, nicotine has positive effects on Parkinsons and Alzheimers.

 

[Rob Fisher]

My whole journey is striving for the perfect flavour and no Nic Salts come even close to even pleasant... and Salts are really made for Pods and man do I dislike pod systems... but I guess I'm just a grumpy old man who has settled on a decent DL RTA and a very narrow range of juice profile.

 

[Silver]

I enjoy nic salts. You use less juice. You vape less. It's almost akin to learning to smoke a tight cigar, for want of a better description.

The salts and MTL combo is a different style completely. However, MTL and especially nic salts are new territory with unknown health results. The benzene extraction process (something like that) is a concern. It's a risk, but I am not sorry I went down the nic Salts rabbit creek. My 4 Berserker Mini's, and the recent addition: the BSKR V1.5, with my many different salts, I rate it better than conventional e-liquid and Atomizers, if I had to choose one.

It may also be an age thing.

So it's a big "yay" from me @Silver

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

Thats interesting @Waine, thanks

How does the vaping of nic salts compare for you with normal nic in your mtl setups?
I assume you have tried with high strength normal nic eg 18mg
How is the flavour? And the throat hit on the actual vape for you?

 

[Alex]

https://www.ecigssa.co.za/nicotine-clinical-trials-missing.t8093/

 

[Raindance]

https://www.ecigssa.co.za/nicotine-clinical-trials-missing.t8093/

Thanks @Alex. I postulate that certain chemicals in cigarette smoke causes a "hole" which gets smoothed over by nicotine. With a half-life of about two hours in a person with a normal metabolism, the "hole" remains after the nicotine stops covering it, hence the need to replenish every so often. each event leading to a the "hole" getting a bit bigger and then need for nicotine increasing proportionally. Creating the appearance of dependancy on nicotine, which is kind of true, but the dependancy was not created by the nicotine itself. Nic is therefore not the culprit.

For this reason I prefer to stick to pure plain nic with no additives or enhancements.

Regards

 

[Hooked]

My whole journey is striving for the perfect flavour and no Nic Salts come even close to even pleasant... and Salts are really made for Pods and man do I dislike pod systems... but I guess I'm just a grumpy old man who has settled on a decent DL RTA and a very narrow range of juice profile.
View attachment 153857

@Rob Fisher I'm with you on the flavour and I definitely don't use nic salts for flavour - just for the nic!

 

[Jean claude Vaaldamme]

Thanks @Alex. I postulate that certain chemicals in cigarette smoke causes a "hole" which gets smoothed over by nicotine. With a half-life of about two hours in a person with a normal metabolism, the "hole" remains after the nicotine stops covering it, hence the need to replenish every so often. each event leading to a the "hole" getting a bit bigger and then need for nicotine increasing proportionally. Creating the appearance of dependancy on nicotine, which is kind of true, but the dependancy was not created by the nicotine itself. Nic is therefore not the culprit.

For this reason I prefer to stick to pure plain nic with no additives or enhancements.

Regards

If you want to know if Toyota is the safest car in the world, surely you wont go and get all your evidence off Toyota's website?

 

[Jean claude Vaaldamme]

@Rob Fisher I'm with you on the flavour and I definitely don't use nic salts for flavour - just for the nic!

But the study says that you can only get nic addiction from tobacco nic, so if you are off sigarettes for a few months, then we all should be on 0mg, as we should have no more nic dependency, according to the study

 

[RichJB]

But the study says that you can only get nic addiction from tobacco nic, so if you are off sigarettes for a few months, then we all should be on 0mg, as we should have no more nic dependency, according to the study

I wouldn't believe that study. There may be chemicals added to tobacco which make the nicotine in it more addictive. But the theory that nicotine is only addictive in tobacco smoke sounds far-fetched to me. I know vapers who didn't smoke and are now just as dependent on nic as any smoker. So it sounds like a whisky company putting out studies that only the alcohol in beer is addictive, the alcohol in whisky isn't. So you can drink their whisky, safe in the knowledge that it will never turn you into an alcoholic. It is a sales pitch, not science.

The other theory that vaping advocacy tried to advance is that nic can't be addictive because they haven't managed to induce addiction in clinical trial subjects. However, that applies to most substances. In this TED Talk, Johann Hari explains the dynamics behind drug addiction: