Throat hit of MTL versus DTL

[Silver]

Am starting this new thread to answer a question @antonherbst asked in another thread.

This was his post there

A question on that @Silver

Would you say the restrictive vape causes a smoother nic delivery or would you say that the 20mg nic delivery is the same on a resticted vape and a lung hit?

Asking as i would like to experiment with 3mg nic in the reo mini.

Short answer @antonherbst , no, i think they are very different. And worth discussing further...

I think throat hit is very important in vaping, especially for newer vapers switching from smoking. If they dont get enough throat hit, they usually dont get the satisfaction they're after.

My belief is that the throat hit from Mouth to Lung vaping is very different to that from Direct Lung.

I am going to reuse an explanation I gave previously which still summarises my view on this. It comes from the following post:
https://www.ecigssa.co.za/new-to-mtl-questions.t40326/#post-563568

For me the difference between the two revolves around the throat hit. I find the throat hit i get with a high nic juice on MTL is more intense. Its like a short, sharp, hard and focused punch in the back of the throat. Made more focused with additional menthol. With direct lung, its a totally different sensation. I cant do the same nic strength because its just unpleasant but when i drop the nic to something nicely vapeable, the throat hit becomes a throat rub, not a punch. Its a gentle rubbing that has a cumulative sort of effect instead of a sharp punch. So if the nic is too high, after say 10-15 mins of repetitive puffing I feel slightly light headed and woosy, not pleasant. But no satisfying punch in the throat while taking the puffs.

Therefore, for me, when I feel the urge for a good nic hit, i will reach for my high nic MTL. In the mornings with coffee, after meals and at some other times especially when i havent vaped for a while. That short sharp punch satisfies me.

So, long story short and especially for new vapers:
If you not getting the satisfaction you crave, try a mouth to lung setup with a higher nicotine juice. Vape it like you smoked, first into the mouth, then inhale into the lungs.

I have seen many first time vapers advised to get a big air high power tank with monstrous coils and 3mg juice. This direct lung massive airflow vaping is very different to smoking. And ive seen plenty of those people say its not for them. I believe those people should try on a high nic MTL setup first and get into direct lung over time if they want to.

The problem with this is that there arent too many good affordable MTL options available, neither are there many high nic juice choices. Hopefully this will change but thats a whole different story.

 

[antonherbst]

Am starting this new thread to answer a question @antonherbst asked in another thread.

This was his post there



Short answer @antonherbst , no, i think they are very different. And worth discussing further...

I think throat hit is very important in vaping, especially for newer vapers switching from smoking. If they dont get enough throat hit, they usually dont get the satisfaction they're after.

My belief is that the throat hit from Mouth to Lung vaping is very different to that from Direct Lung.

I am going to reuse an explanation I gave previously which still summarises my view on this. It comes from the following post:
https://www.ecigssa.co.za/new-to-mtl-questions.t40326/#post-563568

For me the difference between the two revolves around the throat hit. I find the throat hit i get with a high nic juice on MTL is more intense. Its like a short, sharp, hard and focused punch in the back of the throat. Made more focused with additional menthol. With direct lung, its a totally different sensation. I cant do the same nic strength because its just unpleasant but when i drop the nic to something nicely vapeable, the throat hit becomes a throat rub, not a punch. Its a gentle rubbing that has a cumulative sort of effect instead of a sharp punch. So if the nic is too high, after say 10-15 mins of repetitive puffing I feel slightly light headed and woosy, not pleasant. But no satisfying punch in the throat while taking the puffs.

Therefore, for me, when I feel the urge for a good nic hit, i will reach for my high nic MTL. In the mornings with coffee, after meals and at some other times especially when i havent vaped for a while. That short sharp punch satisfies me.

So, long story short and especially for new vapers:
If you not getting the satisfaction you crave, try a mouth to lung setup with a higher nicotine juice. Vape it like you smoked, first into the mouth, then inhale into the lungs.

I have seen many first time vapers advised to get a big air high power tank with monstrous coils and 3mg juice. This direct lung massive airflow vaping is very different to smoking. And ive seen plenty of those people say its not for them. I believe those people should try on a high nic MTL setup first and get into direct lung over time if they want to.

The problem with this is that there arent too many good affordable MTL options available, neither are there many high nic juice choices. Hopefully this will change but thats a whole different story.

Oh wow. What a great read that was and now thinking about it as you explained it makes sense that the mtl hit is a slow delivery for the nicotene as you inhale it from the mouth. Compared to dlh that “flows” over the throat into the lungs. So if i can put it simpler it would be that the mtl is a slow delivery hit and the dlh is a faster pass hit on the nicotene.

I will experiment with 3mg nic and give my take once i have the reo mini in hand compared to the grand with 0mg juice.

 

[Silver]

Oh wow. What a great read that was and now thinking about it as you explained it makes sense that the mtl hit is a slow delivery for the nicotene as you inhale it from the mouth. Compared to dlh that “flows” over the throat into the lungs. So if i can put it simpler it would be that the mtl is a slow delivery hit and the dlh is a faster pass hit on the nicotene.

I will experiment with 3mg nic and give my take once i have the reo mini in hand compared to the grand with 0mg juice.

I hear you @antonherbst
And i think i may have misread your question a bit.

I think we are talking about different things.

Throat hit versus overall nicotine delivery. In my OP i was focusing on throat hit.

The way I understand it is as follows:

Throat hit is the sensation you get while you take a puff. Ots that knock on the throat. Some folk like me like it, while others want it smooth. It only lasts for a short while, during the vape itself - at least thats how i interpret it. Immediate satisfaction.

Overall nicotine delivery is an entirely different thing. That depends on the nicotine strength, the volume of vapour and how long the vapour "lurks" around in your mouth, throat, windpipe and lungs. My understanding is that most of the nicotine absorption in vaping takes place in the mouth, and throat rather than the lungs. It has to do with vapour molecules being much larger than smoke particles among other things. I believe smoke particles lodge themselves in the lungs and absorption is much better and much faster.

So, if you vaped 18mg MTL and let the vapour stay in your mouth for longer before you exhale, more will be absorbed.

If you vape 3mg in a big air massive volume direct lung hit, you are vaping a much lower strength but making up for it with much more volume going in and then going back out. But you typically dont hold it in as long as you do with MTL. And the time it spends travelling past all the absorbing parts of your windpipe, throat, mouth etc is what will deliver the nicotine.

I dont know how to equate the two from an overall nic delivery perspective, but consider this:

A high nic MTL vaper takes the odd small toot here and there and is satisfied.
However, a low nic direct lung vaper typically blows bigger clouds more often. Sometimes chain vapes. That suggests to me that when one drops the nic one tends to vape more to make up for it till you are satisfied.

I see it with myself, when i vape my Reo RM2 with 18mg juice I can have a few toots and be content for nearly an hour. But when i vape 6mg direct lung, i am blowing clouds every 5 minutes.

Dont know if that makes sense?

 

[antonherbst]

I hear you @antonherbst
And i think i may have misread your question a bit.

I think we are talking about different things.

Throat hit versus overall nicotine delivery. In my OP i was focusing on throat hit.

The way I understand it is as follows:

Throat hit is the sensation you get while you take a puff. Ots that knock on the throat. Some folk like me like it, while others want it smooth. It only lasts for a short while, during the vape itself - at least thats how i interpret it. Immediate satisfaction.

Overall nicotine delivery is an entirely different thing. That depends on the nicotine strength, the volume of vapour and how long the vapour "lurks" around in your mouth, throat, windpipe and lungs. My understanding is that most of the nicotine absorption in vaping takes place in the mouth, and throat rather than the lungs. It has to do with vapour molecules being much larger than smoke particles among other things. I believe smoke particles lodge themselves in the lungs and absorption is much better and much faster.

So, if you vaped 18mg MTL and let the vapour stay in your mouth for longer before you exhale, more will be absorbed.

If you vape 3mg in a big air massive volume direct lung hit, you are vaping a much lower strength but making up for it with much more volume going in and then going back out. But you typically dont hold it in as long as you do with MTL. And the time it spends travelling past all the absorbing parts of your windpipe, throat, mouth etc is what will deliver the nicotine.

I dont know how to equate the two from an overall nic delivery perspective, but consider this:

A high nic MTL vaper takes the odd small toot here and there and is satisfied.
However, a low nic direct lung vaper typically blows bigger clouds more often. Sometimes chain vapes. That suggests to me that when one drops the nic one tends to vape more to make up for it till you are satisfied.

I see it with myself, when i vape my Reo RM2 with 18mg juice I can have a few toots and be content for nearly an hour. But when i vape 6mg direct lung, i am blowing clouds every 5 minutes.

Dont know if that makes sense?

That is axactly how i took it for nic delivery. Thanks for the great feedback and your view of it. I am sure their will be other forum members with similar explinations and j will be watching this and posting my feedback when i have tested the difference.

 

[Silver]

That is axactly how i took it for nic delivery. Thanks for the great feedback and your view of it. I am sure their will be other forum members with similar explinations and j will be watching this and posting my feedback when i have tested the difference.

What atty will be on the Reo Mini?

 

[antonherbst]

What atty will be on the Reo Mini?

The 2de ol16 i got 2 weeks ago will be the atty of choice. Propably setup for single coil side with 1 air hole open. And a 0,9ohm coil of sorts.

 

[Silver]

The 2de ol16 i got 2 weeks ago will be the atty of choice. Propably setup for single coil side with 1 air hole open. And a 0,9ohm coil of sorts.

Lovely!!

Is that restricted lung or mouth to lung with just one airhole?

 

[antonherbst]

Lovely!!

Is that restricted lung or mouth to lung with just one airhole?

Not quite sure yet as i have not had such a build and atty setup running on my reo yet. I will let you know once j have the setup running and have vaped it for a day or say.

I am more of a dlh vaper but from time to time the mtl from my merlin mini does have its nice quirks for me. The wife is now off from mtl pen style to very restrictive dl vapes and will stay there as she like the slow restricted vape more than the airy dl hits.

 

[Silver]

Not quite sure yet as i have not had such a build and atty setup running on my reo yet. I will let you know once j have the setup running and have vaped it for a day or say.

I am more of a dlh vaper but from time to time the mtl from my merlin mini does have its nice quirks for me. The wife is now off from mtl pen style to very restrictive dl vapes and will stay there as she like the slow restricted vape more than the airy dl hits.

Ok cool, i wish you all the best with it.

The part i love about vaping is the difference in vaping styles. So many variations.

Tight mouth to lung
Restrictive direct lung - long and slow
Bigger air direct lung

Each has their advantages

 

[Raindance]

I have been experimenting with a MTL device using my standard 2.5mg juice. Managed to get decent flavor on the device but kept missing something.
I was hesitant to up my nic content because as a direct lung hitter, I do not particularly like a strong throat hit. Silvers description of the difference between DL and MTL lung hits however convinces me that this may be whats missing in my MTL experience.

Will mix up some plain RY4 at 6mg and do some testing.

Thanks Gents!

 

[Andre]

The 2de ol16 i got 2 weeks ago will be the atty of choice. Propably setup for single coil side with 1 air hole open. And a 0,9ohm coil of sorts.

Perfect for the Mini. Nice airy MTL. And the battery will last better at that resistance. I run mine at around 0.8 ohms. Just a plain coil.

 

[antonherbst]

Perfect for the Mini. Nice airy MTL. And the battery will last better at that resistance. I run mine at around 0.8 ohms. Just a plain coil.

Making me so much more excited about the mini i am getting.

 

[Raindance]

Making me so much more excited about the mini i am getting.

Rules of the forum:
Volume 4, Article 6, sub section 23a, paragraph 7 to 9 clearly states that any member may only ever be in possession of one REO device at a time. Although ownership is not hereby restricted, members whom own more than one device must loan extra devices (including all accessories - Batteries, atty, bottles, ...) to non owning members until such time said non owning member purchases and receives their own device. At which time said loan device will be loaned to another non owning member. Non owning members will be assigned loan devices using the D.I.B.S. assignment methodology.

@antonherbst - I Call dibs!

 

[antonherbst]

Rules of the forum:
Volume 4, Article 6, sub section 23a, paragraph 7 to 9 clearly states that any member may only ever be in possession of one REO device at a time. Although ownership is not hereby restricted, members whom own more than one device must loan extra devices (including all accessories - Batteries, atty, bottles, ...) to non owning members until such time said non owning member purchases and receives their own device. At which time said loan device will be loaned to another non owning member. Non owning members will be assigned loan devices using the D.I.B.S. assignment methodology.

@antonherbst - I Call dibs!

Sorry to the forum rules and any admin member is allowed to remove the following statement.

But **** you made me laugh very hard and loud with that whole legal approch and sharing and dibs part of your statement.

I would however set a curtesy up for you to test run it when we meet one day.

 

[Silver]

I have been experimenting with a MTL device using my standard 2.5mg juice. Managed to get decent flavor on the device but kept missing something.
I was hesitant to up my nic content because as a direct lung hitter, I do not particularly like a strong throat hit. Silvers description of the difference between DL and MTL lung hits however convinces me that this may be whats missing in my MTL experience.

Will mix up some plain RY4 at 6mg and do some testing.

Thanks Gents!

Glad to hear @Raindance
I think 2.5mg for MTL is way too low.
For me its miles to low, but even for people who dont crave as much TH as me, i still think its way too low. I'd be interested to hear how you find the 6mg. I suspect that will be a bit too low as well. Me thinks 9-12 mg would be more appropriate, just a hunch

 

[antonherbst]

Glad to hear @Raindance
I think 2.5mg for MTL is way too low.
For me its miles to low, but even for people who dont crave as much TH as me, i still think its way too low. I'd be interested to hear how you find the 6mg. I suspect that will be a bit too low as well. Me thinks 9-12 mg would be more appropriate, just a hunch

I will inform you guys what the effect is with a ol16 vaping 3mg with a resticted direct lung hit. After i have recoiled and wicked my reo later today.

 

[Alex]

When I started vaping, for the first nine months I was strictly MTL, as this was the same way I smoked cigarettes. But then one day I switched to DLI, and I have never gone back. It's a different kind of throat hit for sure, to be honest I can't even clearly recall the throat heat from MTL anymore. I just know I prefer the DLI hit far more.

For me, it's kinda like a warm buildup in my throat. It feels like it has a "body" to it, very difficult to describe in words.

 

[Scissorhands]

@Silver @Raindance @antonherbst

Just adding.
I dli 3mg on the Hadaly, can do 6mg during a work day but 3mg is definitely more comfortable

Been running the ol16 exclusively for 3 weeks , dual coil 2nd largest air setting, 6mg, although not true mtl, i do feel the nic could be higher 9 - 12mg sounds about right

Kind regards gents

 

[antonherbst]

@Silver @Raindance @antonherbst

Just adding.
I dli 3mg on the Hadaly, can do 6mg during a work day but 3mg is definitely more comfortable

Been running the ol16 exclusively for 3 weeks , dual coil 2nd largest air setting, 6mg, although not true mtl, i do feel the nic could be higher 9 - 12mg sounds about right

Kind regards gents

That is interesting. I will give my info tomorrow as i am running the reo with 3mg now on that same config.

 

[Scissorhands]

That is interesting. I will give my info tomorrow as i am running the reo with 3mg now on that same config.

I should probably add

Running at 0.3 ohm,
with 3mg dli i go through roughly 2 - 3 squonk bottle a day, with 6mg mtl/restricted i go through 1 - 1.5 bottles, so my nic consumption is about the same

 

[antonherbst]

Okay so i have just finished my first full 6ml of the joga eliquid blissful cookie @3mg with a 6 wrap 28g 316L 2.5ID center mounted coil and royal wick in the REO. I must say the throat hit does differ with the various air-holes open on the OL16. The various air configurations does make the experience from MTL to DL quite enjoyable. I have to say for me the hit is quite strong when i am using MTL compared to DL on this REO/OL16. With the DL it its still a good vape but the nicotine hit is very mild. I prefer the DL config with nicotine as i am almost off it for over a year now and does not want to go back to it. I do however now see that, when i convert smokers to vapers i need to inform them of the details of MTL and higher nic content juices when they start vaping. This was definitely a learning vape for me over the past 2 days. @Silver I respect your 18mg nic hits as i would die if i had to take that vape. The nicotine delivery does depend on the setup used for vaping that high.